Comments on: What Happens If You Remove All The Traffic Signs From A City? http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/ News For Drivers Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:32:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Devin http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-14762 Devin Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:53:45 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-14762 Nice and interesting post. Thanks Nice and interesting post.
Thanks

]]> By: Mike http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-11692 Mike Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:11:02 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-11692 I collect pictures of roadside signs. Some are official, like in CT, "ROAD IS DEPRESSED", which makes me wonder if therapy might help. Got a street sign in Richardson, TX for Lois Lane. Yeah, it's an actual street name. Or Lovers Lane in Dallas, which is really a major avenue through the city. But the best one has got to be: NOTICE THANK YOU FOR NOTICING THIS NEW NOTICE YOUR NOTICING IT HAS BEEN NOTED (AND WILL BE REPORTED TO THE AUTHORITIES) I collect pictures of roadside signs. Some are official, like in CT, “ROAD IS DEPRESSED”, which makes me wonder if therapy might help. Got a street sign in Richardson, TX for Lois Lane. Yeah, it’s an actual street name. Or Lovers Lane in Dallas, which is really a major avenue through the city.

But the best one has got to be:
NOTICE

THANK YOU
FOR NOTICING THIS
NEW NOTICE

YOUR NOTICING IT
HAS BEEN NOTED

(AND WILL BE REPORTED TO THE AUTHORITIES)

]]> By: Highway http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-9037 Highway Wed, 03 Sep 2008 20:19:55 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-9037 But that's nowhere close to a 'logical conclusion'. That's an absurd leap, and the first half of your paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with the second. You have not show in any way how the removal of excessive traffic controls can ACTUALLY further the goals of anti-transportation planners. You just keep insisting that this is the case. The point of the article is to show that perhaps the 'century of safety research by traffic engineers' is not nearly as useful or 'safe' as roadways should be. Its point is that the layering of safety measure upon safety measure upon safety measure has *passed* a point of diminishing returns and is actually CONTRIBUTING to the unsafe practices of drivers, as they reduce their attention spent on the act of driving. The goal is to *actually* make the roadways safer. And if a better way to do it is to not throw up dozens of confusing signs, treating drivers like brain-dead morons while confusing them beyond comprehension, then that way should get support. Blind opposition just because you think there isn't enough pavement in the world is a non-sequiter. I love to see new roads designed and built, but I also know the goal of those roads is to get people from here to there in a timely and, most important of all, safe manner. But that’s nowhere close to a ‘logical conclusion’. That’s an absurd leap, and the first half of your paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with the second. You have not show in any way how the removal of excessive traffic controls can ACTUALLY further the goals of anti-transportation planners. You just keep insisting that this is the case.

The point of the article is to show that perhaps the ‘century of safety research by traffic engineers’ is not nearly as useful or ’safe’ as roadways should be. Its point is that the layering of safety measure upon safety measure upon safety measure has *passed* a point of diminishing returns and is actually CONTRIBUTING to the unsafe practices of drivers, as they reduce their attention spent on the act of driving.

The goal is to *actually* make the roadways safer. And if a better way to do it is to not throw up dozens of confusing signs, treating drivers like brain-dead morons while confusing them beyond comprehension, then that way should get support. Blind opposition just because you think there isn’t enough pavement in the world is a non-sequiter. I love to see new roads designed and built, but I also know the goal of those roads is to get people from here to there in a timely and, most important of all, safe manner.

]]> By: Tom McCarey http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-9036 Tom McCarey Wed, 03 Sep 2008 20:01:55 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-9036 The most extreme version of traffic calming comes from the Netherlands, where a planner named Hans Monderman proposes to make streets safe by making them as dangerous as possible. He modifies urban streets by removing all safety devices, including signs, stripes, signals, and even the curbs separating pedestrians from automobiles. By taking the knife-to-the-heart theory of traffic safety to its logical conclusion, Monderman's ideas undo a century of safety research by traffic engineers. They are just idiotic enough that some American planners are likely to make similar proposals soon. Central planners are tyrant elitists who believe that ordinary people have too much freedom, and their mission is to incrementally abridge as much freedom as they deem necessary for the "good" of society. They, of course, will have the cars they want, and be free to go where and when they want without being asked for their papers. Tom McCarey The most extreme version of traffic calming comes from the Netherlands, where a planner named Hans Monderman proposes to make streets safe by making them as dangerous as possible. He modifies urban streets by removing all safety devices, including signs, stripes, signals, and even the curbs separating pedestrians from automobiles. By taking the knife-to-the-heart theory of traffic safety to its logical conclusion, Monderman’s ideas undo a century of safety research by traffic engineers. They are just idiotic enough that some American planners are likely to make similar proposals soon. Central planners are tyrant elitists who believe that ordinary people have too much freedom, and their mission is to incrementally abridge as much freedom as they deem necessary for the “good” of society. They, of course, will have the cars they want, and be free to go where and when they want without being asked for their papers.
Tom McCarey

]]> By: Highway http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-9017 Highway Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:12:17 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-9017 Tom, since you seem to have convinced yourself that you are right, that any attempt at improvement in traffic flow is actually a stalking horse for 'smart growth' or whatever bogeyman concept you don't like, I don't expect to convince you. But for everyone else, realize that the primary use of this traffic control paradigm is in already developed areas, with areas of traffic that were not planned by system, and do not work in either an interconnected or synergistic way. Additionally, these areas have layer upon layer upon layer of legacy traffic controls that were added in to try to 'fix' some problem that was identified, instead of going back and starting over. Yes, it's supposed to make driving uncomfortable. It's supposed to make people THINK while they're on the road, not allow them to believe they can zone out, protected by signage and channelization. But by doing this, it makes most drivers more aware, and reduces accidents and injuries, and increases actual throughput. Tom, since you seem to have convinced yourself that you are right, that any attempt at improvement in traffic flow is actually a stalking horse for ’smart growth’ or whatever bogeyman concept you don’t like, I don’t expect to convince you.

But for everyone else, realize that the primary use of this traffic control paradigm is in already developed areas, with areas of traffic that were not planned by system, and do not work in either an interconnected or synergistic way. Additionally, these areas have layer upon layer upon layer of legacy traffic controls that were added in to try to ‘fix’ some problem that was identified, instead of going back and starting over.

Yes, it’s supposed to make driving uncomfortable. It’s supposed to make people THINK while they’re on the road, not allow them to believe they can zone out, protected by signage and channelization. But by doing this, it makes most drivers more aware, and reduces accidents and injuries, and increases actual throughput.

]]> By: Tom McCarey http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-8923 Tom McCarey Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:57:05 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-8923 Highway- It doesn't work like that. There may be fewer accidents, but the point of this tactic is to make driving so unpleasant and inconvenient that people will walk, bike, or transit--the goal of "smart growth." "SG" is Soviet-style central planning and control, not the way people want to live, and is killing freedom in the US. Tom McCarey Highway-
It doesn’t work like that. There may be fewer accidents, but the point of this tactic is to make driving so unpleasant and inconvenient that people will walk, bike, or transit–the goal of “smart growth.” “SG” is Soviet-style central planning and control, not the way people want to live, and is killing freedom in the US.
Tom McCarey

]]> By: Highway http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-8922 Highway Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:48:44 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-8922 Tom Mccarey, perhaps you missed the part where there was more throughput, less delay, and fewer accidents when this paradigm was applied to suitable locations. The idea behind this is not to 'impede traffic'. It's to reduce the comfort level of all people who interact on the road, so they pay more attention to what they are doing. It's a way to hopefully reverse our trend of trying to "Over-Law" everything so that we try to remove all judgment, which cannot be accomplished, and let people drive and interact with the other road users more safely. Not everything is about transit or 'smart growth'. Tom Mccarey, perhaps you missed the part where there was more throughput, less delay, and fewer accidents when this paradigm was applied to suitable locations.

The idea behind this is not to ‘impede traffic’. It’s to reduce the comfort level of all people who interact on the road, so they pay more attention to what they are doing. It’s a way to hopefully reverse our trend of trying to “Over-Law” everything so that we try to remove all judgment, which cannot be accomplished, and let people drive and interact with the other road users more safely.

Not everything is about transit or ’smart growth’.

]]> By: Tom Mccarey http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-8921 Tom Mccarey Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:29:19 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-8921 This is a new tactic that the anti-automobile gang including "smart growth" urban engineers are using to impede traffic and make it more difficult to get around, with the goal of eliminating cars altogether. What is needed is more road capacity engineered for more efficient travel. The US will never have, and doesn't want, the type of public transit that the "smart growth" pipedreamers and the radical greens envision. Unless we fight against these people we will soon lose the freedom to drive where, when, and what we want. Check with www.americandreamcoalition.org for related information. Tom McCarey This is a new tactic that the anti-automobile gang including “smart growth” urban engineers are using to impede traffic and make it more difficult to get around, with the goal of eliminating cars altogether.

What is needed is more road capacity engineered for more efficient travel. The US will never have, and doesn’t want, the type of public transit that the “smart growth” pipedreamers and the radical greens envision. Unless we fight against these people we will soon lose the freedom to drive where, when, and what we want.

Check with http://www.americandreamcoalition.org for related information.
Tom McCarey

]]> By: Hubcap http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-8886 Hubcap Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:25:07 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-8886 One of my favorites I saw in South FL: "Please move disabled vehicles from traffic lanes" Aw hell! I was just gonna put the pink under the wiper and walk away... One of my favorites I saw in South FL:
“Please move disabled vehicles from traffic lanes”

Aw hell! I was just gonna put the pink under the wiper and walk away…

]]> By: Brian http://blog.motorists.org/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/comment-page-1/#comment-8880 Brian Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:22:26 +0000 http://www.motorists.org/blog/helpful-information/what-happens-if-you-remove-all-the-traffic-signs-from-a-city/#comment-8880 I once saw a show on a town (or village) that decided to eliminate all traffic markers, including painted markers and let drivers and bikers figure it all out for themselves. Not sure where this town was, but I thought it was in the US somewhere. It was an interesting experiment, I seem to remember the show indicating that traffic accidents were down as a result. I once saw a show on a town (or village) that decided to eliminate all traffic markers, including painted markers and let drivers and bikers figure it all out for themselves. Not sure where this town was, but I thought it was in the US somewhere. It was an interesting experiment, I seem to remember the show indicating that traffic accidents were down as a result.

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