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	<title>Comments on: Virginia&#8217;s &quot;Abuser Fees&quot; Get Dumped&#8230; For The Moment</title>
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		<title>By: NA</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-7222</link>
		<dc:creator>NA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 01:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-7222</guid>
		<description>NOVA breeds the scum-of-the-earth bottom feeders who watch these laws become statutes (e.g. Micky Warner, Timmy Kaine, Jimmy &quot;Hothead&quot; Webb, Albo, the Morans)...

VA&#039;s manageability rating might be high, but it&#039;s goin&#039; down the tubes...I&#039;m tired of these weaselly Big Whigs pocketing my money...It&#039;s gonna stop, but NOT b/f these sleazy pencil-pushers are put out of business for good!
(NC&#039;s lookin&#039; more and more attractive every day.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NOVA breeds the scum-of-the-earth bottom feeders who watch these laws become statutes (e.g. Micky Warner, Timmy Kaine, Jimmy &#8220;Hothead&#8221; Webb, Albo, the Morans)&#8230;</p>
<p>VA&#8217;s manageability rating might be high, but it&#8217;s goin&#8217; down the tubes&#8230;I&#8217;m tired of these weaselly Big Whigs pocketing my money&#8230;It&#8217;s gonna stop, but NOT b/f these sleazy pencil-pushers are put out of business for good!<br />
(NC&#8217;s lookin&#8217; more and more attractive every day.)</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-5299</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 08:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-5299</guid>
		<description>I am charged of reckless driving-46-2-852.I drove into a one way lane by mistake.This is my first ticket in my 1.5 years driving history.If I plead guilty in court what wud be the total expense including fines i will have to bear?Shud i hire an attorney?Will he help me from not geting any hike in my insurance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am charged of reckless driving-46-2-852.I drove into a one way lane by mistake.This is my first ticket in my 1.5 years driving history.If I plead guilty in court what wud be the total expense including fines i will have to bear?Shud i hire an attorney?Will he help me from not geting any hike in my insurance?</p>
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		<title>By: JOE</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-3811</link>
		<dc:creator>JOE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-3811</guid>
		<description>OK Robert now that you&#039;ve established that economic theory, doesn&#039;t that also apply to the municipalities that use the cameras and the companies renting them? It is no accident that millions of dollars start rolling into municipal coffers after the cameras start rolling. Are you then going to tell  us that there&#039;s no incentive on this side of the argument?

This greed for revenue is resulting in all sorts of abuse such as examples of shortening the yellow light timing to increase the citations and the resulting revenue. Do you believe this abuse is OK?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK Robert now that you&#8217;ve established that economic theory, doesn&#8217;t that also apply to the municipalities that use the cameras and the companies renting them? It is no accident that millions of dollars start rolling into municipal coffers after the cameras start rolling. Are you then going to tell  us that there&#8217;s no incentive on this side of the argument?</p>
<p>This greed for revenue is resulting in all sorts of abuse such as examples of shortening the yellow light timing to increase the citations and the resulting revenue. Do you believe this abuse is OK?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim W.</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-3805</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-3805</guid>
		<description>VA wants money for roads, etc. The first place to find money is to cut the cost of government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VA wants money for roads, etc. The first place to find money is to cut the cost of government.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamey Parsons</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-3416</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamey Parsons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-3416</guid>
		<description>This act as is the one in Texas now in place is a complete violation of our constitutional rights(Article petitthe seventh [Amendment V] and under Texas&#039;s own Constitution&#039;s bill of rights Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS Section 14 - DOUBLE JEOPARDY). Please if you live in TX (Texans only please) sign this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.petitiononline.com/TXDRP07/petition.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;petition&lt;/a&gt;. I am planning to fight the Texas Drivers Responsibility act tooth and nail. I have already written to a number of state representatives and signed this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.petitiononline.com/TXDRP07/petition.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;petition&lt;/a&gt;. I need to get as many signatures as possible on this so I can try my best to get this thing repealed. I need at least Ten Thousand signatures on this thing to be heard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This act as is the one in Texas now in place is a complete violation of our constitutional rights(Article petitthe seventh [Amendment V] and under Texas&#8217;s own Constitution&#8217;s bill of rights Article 1 &#8211; BILL OF RIGHTS Section 14 &#8211; DOUBLE JEOPARDY). Please if you live in TX (Texans only please) sign this <a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/TXDRP07/petition.html" rel="nofollow">petition</a>. I am planning to fight the Texas Drivers Responsibility act tooth and nail. I have already written to a number of state representatives and signed this <a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/TXDRP07/petition.html" rel="nofollow">petition</a>. I need to get as many signatures as possible on this so I can try my best to get this thing repealed. I need at least Ten Thousand signatures on this thing to be heard.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-2281</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-2281</guid>
		<description>Listen, as believers in an incentive based economy, it is impossible to argue that rational economic participants are unaffected by a financial incentive to obey traffic laws. If this were the case, then individuals would act completely independent of the law. In actuality, drivers weigh the externalities associated with following the traffic law in comparison to the set of consequences for not following the given laws. When consequences and the possibility of being caught are low, drivers are more likely to act “recklessly”. For instance, we may speed late at night while passing a rolling farmland because we either assume that the consequences of speeding only impact ourselves or because we assume that our chances of being pulled over are small. Creating incentives for good driving is an economically smart decision regardless of the number of accidents caused by “distractions.” This simply indicates that no law can stop all individuals, all of the time. How intuitive! 

More than what Phil has stated, since the Abuser Fees were enacted, citations for reckless driving dropped 26%, indicating a decrease in the number of reckless drivers, the willingness of the state to prosecute drivers for reckless behavior, or some combination of the two. 

Abuser fees begot fewer reckless drivers begot less traffic cases. 

p.s. The claim that abuser fees made some individuals shell out $3,000 per instances is a drastic misrepresentation of the bills language. This fine only applies to those convicted of a felony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listen, as believers in an incentive based economy, it is impossible to argue that rational economic participants are unaffected by a financial incentive to obey traffic laws. If this were the case, then individuals would act completely independent of the law. In actuality, drivers weigh the externalities associated with following the traffic law in comparison to the set of consequences for not following the given laws. When consequences and the possibility of being caught are low, drivers are more likely to act “recklessly”. For instance, we may speed late at night while passing a rolling farmland because we either assume that the consequences of speeding only impact ourselves or because we assume that our chances of being pulled over are small. Creating incentives for good driving is an economically smart decision regardless of the number of accidents caused by “distractions.” This simply indicates that no law can stop all individuals, all of the time. How intuitive! </p>
<p>More than what Phil has stated, since the Abuser Fees were enacted, citations for reckless driving dropped 26%, indicating a decrease in the number of reckless drivers, the willingness of the state to prosecute drivers for reckless behavior, or some combination of the two. </p>
<p>Abuser fees begot fewer reckless drivers begot less traffic cases. </p>
<p>p.s. The claim that abuser fees made some individuals shell out $3,000 per instances is a drastic misrepresentation of the bills language. This fine only applies to those convicted of a felony.</p>
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		<title>By: paula martin</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-2094</link>
		<dc:creator>paula martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-2094</guid>
		<description>2-9-08

Instead of being cited for  exceeding the speed limit or failure to signal or yield right of way a driver in Virginia can also be cited for reckless driving.
Do I have this right?

Reckless Driving in Virginia

VA Code § 46.2-852. Reckless driving; general rule 
Irrespective of the maximum speeds permitted by law, any person who drives a vehicle on any highway recklessly or at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia.

VA Code § 46.2-853. Driving vehicle which is not under control; faulty brakes 
VA Code § 46.2-854. Passing on or at the crest of a grade or on a curve 
VA Code § 46.2-855. Driving with driver&#039;s view obstructed or control impaired
VA Code § 46.2-856. Passing two vehicles abreast 
VA Code § 46.2-857. Driving two abreast in a single lane 
VA Code § 46.2-858. Passing at a railroad grade crossing.
VA Code § 46.2-860. Failing to give proper signals
VA Code § 46.2-861. Driving too fast for highway and traffic conditions 
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia who exceeds a reasonable speed under the circumstances and traffic conditions existing at the time, regardless of any posted speed limit.
VA Code § 46.2-862. Exceeding speed limit 
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who drives a motor vehicle on the highways in the Commonwealth (i) at a speed of twenty miles per hour or more in excess of the applicable maximum speed limit or (ii) in excess of eighty miles per hour regardless of the applicable maximum speed limit.
VA Code § 46.2-863. Failure to yield right-of-way
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia who fails to bring his vehicle to a stop immediately before entering a highway from a side road when there is traffic approaching on such highway within 500 feet of such point of entrance, unless (i) a &quot;Yield Right-of-Way&quot; sign is posted or (ii) where such sign is posted, fails, upon entering such highway, to yield the right-of-way to the driver of a vehicle approaching on such highway from either direction.
VA Code § 46.2-864. Reckless driving on parking lots, etc.
VA Code § 46.2-865. Racing
VA Code § 46.2-865.1. Injuring persons while engaging in a race 
VA Code § 46.2-866. Racing; aiders or abettors
Any person in Virginia, although not engaged in a race as defined in§ 46.2-865, who aids or abets any such race, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
VA Code § 46.2-867. Racing; 
***********************************

Do drivers as they reach for the keys to their car even think about fines?
Or do drivers just want to get from one place to another without injury to themselves or their car?
***********************************

The leading causes of accidents are Distractions to the driver(80%)  Driving while exhausted,Inclement weather,Drunk Driving,not driving 20 miles over the speed limit or failure to signal, violations which are enough to have a reckless driving violation in Virginia.

It would be interesting to have the study mentioned by Phil posted on this site to see what factors were involved in a reduction of violations other than abusive driver penalties and WHO the study was done by.

If the number of violations (guilty verdicts) are the criteria on which the study bases it&#039;s 11% decrease this is different than the study being based on how many drivers were CITED for Reckless Driving in Virginia. 

The decrease may be due to drivers facing serious penalties retaining a lawyer who was able to get the abusive driver charges dismissed.

Lawyers taking cases that involve serious penalties can charge a higher fee and handle less cases with the same amount of income or more.A reduction in cases doesn&#039;t = a reduction in income necessarily.

It stands to reason if a lawyer is handling traffic ticket cases he would benfit from stiffer penalties given to drivers for violating a vehicle code.
Cited drivers who would normally pay the fine if the fine was less bother than fighting a traffic ticket are much more likely to have a lawyer handle his case if the penalties are high.

If a lawyer were truly concerned about defending his clients he should be recommending laws that give the cited driver more rights and the ABOLISHMENT OF charging a driver with reckless driving when the driver is cited for speeding, failure to signal, failure to yield where there is clearly no apparent danger at the time the driver is cited.

The lawyer should be pushing that the driver be cited in these cases for reckless driving ONLY when an accident has occurred or there is absolute evidence that another driver  was forced off the road, laid rubber or had to take extreme action to avoid an accident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2-9-08</p>
<p>Instead of being cited for  exceeding the speed limit or failure to signal or yield right of way a driver in Virginia can also be cited for reckless driving.<br />
Do I have this right?</p>
<p>Reckless Driving in Virginia</p>
<p>VA Code § 46.2-852. Reckless driving; general rule<br />
Irrespective of the maximum speeds permitted by law, any person who drives a vehicle on any highway recklessly or at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia.</p>
<p>VA Code § 46.2-853. Driving vehicle which is not under control; faulty brakes<br />
VA Code § 46.2-854. Passing on or at the crest of a grade or on a curve<br />
VA Code § 46.2-855. Driving with driver&#8217;s view obstructed or control impaired<br />
VA Code § 46.2-856. Passing two vehicles abreast<br />
VA Code § 46.2-857. Driving two abreast in a single lane<br />
VA Code § 46.2-858. Passing at a railroad grade crossing.<br />
VA Code § 46.2-860. Failing to give proper signals<br />
VA Code § 46.2-861. Driving too fast for highway and traffic conditions<br />
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia who exceeds a reasonable speed under the circumstances and traffic conditions existing at the time, regardless of any posted speed limit.<br />
VA Code § 46.2-862. Exceeding speed limit<br />
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who drives a motor vehicle on the highways in the Commonwealth (i) at a speed of twenty miles per hour or more in excess of the applicable maximum speed limit or (ii) in excess of eighty miles per hour regardless of the applicable maximum speed limit.<br />
VA Code § 46.2-863. Failure to yield right-of-way<br />
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia who fails to bring his vehicle to a stop immediately before entering a highway from a side road when there is traffic approaching on such highway within 500 feet of such point of entrance, unless (i) a &#8220;Yield Right-of-Way&#8221; sign is posted or (ii) where such sign is posted, fails, upon entering such highway, to yield the right-of-way to the driver of a vehicle approaching on such highway from either direction.<br />
VA Code § 46.2-864. Reckless driving on parking lots, etc.<br />
VA Code § 46.2-865. Racing<br />
VA Code § 46.2-865.1. Injuring persons while engaging in a race<br />
VA Code § 46.2-866. Racing; aiders or abettors<br />
Any person in Virginia, although not engaged in a race as defined in§ 46.2-865, who aids or abets any such race, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.<br />
VA Code § 46.2-867. Racing;<br />
***********************************</p>
<p>Do drivers as they reach for the keys to their car even think about fines?<br />
Or do drivers just want to get from one place to another without injury to themselves or their car?<br />
***********************************</p>
<p>The leading causes of accidents are Distractions to the driver(80%)  Driving while exhausted,Inclement weather,Drunk Driving,not driving 20 miles over the speed limit or failure to signal, violations which are enough to have a reckless driving violation in Virginia.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to have the study mentioned by Phil posted on this site to see what factors were involved in a reduction of violations other than abusive driver penalties and WHO the study was done by.</p>
<p>If the number of violations (guilty verdicts) are the criteria on which the study bases it&#8217;s 11% decrease this is different than the study being based on how many drivers were CITED for Reckless Driving in Virginia. </p>
<p>The decrease may be due to drivers facing serious penalties retaining a lawyer who was able to get the abusive driver charges dismissed.</p>
<p>Lawyers taking cases that involve serious penalties can charge a higher fee and handle less cases with the same amount of income or more.A reduction in cases doesn&#8217;t = a reduction in income necessarily.</p>
<p>It stands to reason if a lawyer is handling traffic ticket cases he would benfit from stiffer penalties given to drivers for violating a vehicle code.<br />
Cited drivers who would normally pay the fine if the fine was less bother than fighting a traffic ticket are much more likely to have a lawyer handle his case if the penalties are high.</p>
<p>If a lawyer were truly concerned about defending his clients he should be recommending laws that give the cited driver more rights and the ABOLISHMENT OF charging a driver with reckless driving when the driver is cited for speeding, failure to signal, failure to yield where there is clearly no apparent danger at the time the driver is cited.</p>
<p>The lawyer should be pushing that the driver be cited in these cases for reckless driving ONLY when an accident has occurred or there is absolute evidence that another driver  was forced off the road, laid rubber or had to take extreme action to avoid an accident.</p>
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		<title>By: phil</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-2081</link>
		<dc:creator>phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-2081</guid>
		<description>I have to say the implication that Albo would personally profit from these fees is completely spurious. Your equation assumes that traffic violations remain the same and fees go up, resulting in more business for lawyers. But the point of any law is to alter behavior. If people drive more carefully because of the threat of high fines, then it&#039;s likely the effect is to lessen the number of driving violations. From what I understand, Reckless Driving violations decreased by 11% while the abusive driver fees were in effect. This means less, not more business for lawyers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say the implication that Albo would personally profit from these fees is completely spurious. Your equation assumes that traffic violations remain the same and fees go up, resulting in more business for lawyers. But the point of any law is to alter behavior. If people drive more carefully because of the threat of high fines, then it&#8217;s likely the effect is to lessen the number of driving violations. From what I understand, Reckless Driving violations decreased by 11% while the abusive driver fees were in effect. This means less, not more business for lawyers.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-1771</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 03:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-1771</guid>
		<description>I hope VA lawmakers learned from the heat we gave them. VA traffic laws, and VA laws in general are screwed up. Hope this has some lasting effect</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope VA lawmakers learned from the heat we gave them. VA traffic laws, and VA laws in general are screwed up. Hope this has some lasting effect</p>
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		<title>By: paula martin</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/comment-page-1/#comment-1765</link>
		<dc:creator>paula martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/corruption/virginias-abuser-fees-get-dumped-for-the-moment/#comment-1765</guid>
		<description>1-29-08

Isn&#039;t this unethical?
     If the lawyer is practicing as a defence attorney what is he doing promoting hefty fines for those he is supposed to be representing?
As the old saying goes with friends like this who needs enemies?
Has this been reported to the American Bar Association in his state? If so what was their response?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1-29-08</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t this unethical?<br />
     If the lawyer is practicing as a defence attorney what is he doing promoting hefty fines for those he is supposed to be representing?<br />
As the old saying goes with friends like this who needs enemies?<br />
Has this been reported to the American Bar Association in his state? If so what was their response?</p>
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