Avoid Speeding Tickets: The Value Of A Good Radar Detector
By Eric Peters, Automotive Columnist
The best way to fight a traffic ticket is to avoid getting one in the first place.
In addition to developing the habit of constantly scanning your surroundings and being on alert for cops — and radar traps — every driver should invest in a top quality radar detector, such as the Valentine 1 (see: http://www.valentine1.com/).
The appx. $400 cost may seem steep but I guarantee that if you routinely drive 5-10 mph faster than the speed limit (and most of us do) you will recover your investment before a year’s out. A typical speeeeeeeeeding ticket — just a routine, radar trap-type ticket — costs about $150, on average, in fines plus court costs.
In most states, the ticket remains “live” on your record for three years — meaning it is actively held against you in the form of demerit points ( three or four points is common for the typical minor speeding charge). If you accumulate too many points within a given period of time (12 in a 12 month period is typical) the state DMV can suspend your driver’s license.
But the more serious problem for most people comes via their insurance company. Many companies will hold a ticket against you — that is, use it as a pretext for raising your insurance rate — for as long as five years.
So, if your premium goes up by say $50 per year (a low figure) then the true cost of that one minor speeding ticket is at least $400 over three years — or about the cost of a good radar detector like the V1.
But the real trap is that second ticket many people get during that 3-5 year period when the first ticket is still “active.” While some insurance companies won’t raise your rate for one traffic ticket, most will absolutely do it if you get two within a certain timeframe.
And it’s that second ticket that could really cost you.
If your annual premium is $800 (again, a low figure for many people) and as a result of a second speeding ticket, your insurance company decides to hit you with a 10 percent “surcharge” — you’re looking at an additional $80 per year for as long as those tickets remain active.
Over five years, that’s an additional $400 (not counting the original fine itself) or significantly more than what you’d have spent for a good radar detector that might have helped you avoid those tickets in the first place.
And bear in mind, we have so far only been talking about trivial, minor tickets — the nuisance type without a mandatory court appearance, where you can just sign the form and send them the money.
Many people have no idea that they are potentially in line for a much more catastrophic scenario. For example, in my home state of Virginia, a driver can be (and often is) charged with “reckless driving” merely for being caught doing in excess of 20 mph over the posted maximum. It sounds like a lot, but on a highway or secondary road where the limit is 50-60 mph, it really isn’t.
Often, it’s the normal flow of traffic.
Worse, you can be hit with the “reckless” charge for driving faster than 80 mph, period. On the highways, almost everyone is already doing 70-75. So doing 80 is pretty common. If you’ve been on I-95 or I-81 on the east coast — or I-10 out west, you know that already.
But get caught doing it and your day will be most unhappy.
The “reckless” bust usually carries with it a mandatory court appearance and, if you are convicted, six demerit points are usually levied against your driving record. And when the insurance company gets wind of it — and they will get wind of it — expect your premium to be “adjusted” upward by 20-50 percent, if they don’t cancel the policy outright.
Now we are into serious money.
A single “reckless driving” conviction on your record can cost you not hundreds but thousands of dollars in fines and court costs, lawyer bills and 3-5 years of jacked-up insurance premiums.
If this happens to you, the price of that radar detector you decided not to buy will seem like a sweet deal.
And it was.
A good radar detector will probably help you dodge several speeding tickets each year if you routinely drive faster than 10 mph over the posted limit — more than earning its keep. I won’t get into the rightness or wrongness of routinely exceeding the speed limit; it’s just a fact of life that most of us do it frequently and are thus at constant risk of being hit with a piece of payin’ paper.
State and local governments are more desperate for cash than they have ever been and so traffic enforcement (manned radar traps as well as automated speed cameras) is becoming more vicious and harder and harder to avoid — unless you always drive within 2-3 mph of the posted maximum (even as little as 5 mph over will put you in the crosshairs these days).
For many of us, that’s just not realistic. And the fact of the matter is that even drivers who don’t “speed” are increasingly running afoul of deliberately under-posted limits (where the posted maximum is set well below the normal — and reasonable — flow of traffic) or nasty speed traps, such as where a cop hangs out just after a small, easy to miss sign that denotes a 10 mph drop in the lawful maximum.
A radar detector is the one thing that can save your bacon in such a scenario. Which is why I never leave home without mine.
And neither should you.
Editor’s Note:
Radar detectors are legal nationwide, except for Virginia and Washington D.C.
You deserve every speeding ticket you get. You can complain all you want after the fact, but it's true. Find out why.
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I drive for a living and feel that this “Randy” so called fellow isn’t fiting in here w/ some of us “driving enthusiasts”. I have saved a lot of time by going 5-10 mph over the posted speed limit. Randy, YOU OFFEND ME! I’ll bet Randy is the type of guy who lives in the left lane clogging up traffic in his 4 wheel vehicle. This is called being a left lane hog Randy and it slows down traffic, decreases fuel mileage due to the hitting of the break pedal and speeding back up, and creates road rage! And school zones being brought up is just a ploy by you to find a way to get back at us hard working people. No one promotes speeding in school zones on here, but we may see a police officer patroling the school zone during certain hours. Not all of us use a radar detector for the sole purpose of speeding. Have you ever thought some of us are “gadget enthusiasts” that like to see a gadget go off every now and then and know how to avoid a gadget while going thru traffic or in a high false alarm area? Remember, gadgets do include cell phones, stereo systems, VCR’s, DVD players,etc Randy. I am just tired of people infringing upon OUR rights as Americans and Canadians to enjoy a gadget instead of going out and doing drugs or murdering another individual or even scamming someone else. A radar detector is by no means promoting killing another individual while on the road, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT! LIES,LIES, AND MORE LIES! Next thing you know, a guy like Randy is going to attempt to take the manual shift vehicle I drive, away from me and force me to drive an automatic shift. Not that automatic shifts are bad because they aren’t, my mother owns one. But if I prefer a manual shift vehicle, then I am going to have one w/ out asking some Randy guy if it’s ok. And if you didn’t know, police officers are being threatened to write tickets for the smallest of things nowadays just to make revenue for the govt’s.
Randy and Randall are clearly impostor, highway patrol, “SS” revenue collectors.
MW clearly from your posts you get your information from a highly biased source that does not include all of the facts or reasons for any statistics. Deaths went down because we increased our speeds? You are an idiot to think that.
I was on the highway after work today and it made me think how many people on this site state that the US is less safe than Germany because they have higher speed limits and speeds. I think many on the highway this afternoon would be in jail in Germany for driving the way they were here. There was a group of 5 or 6 cars all behind each other driving 70 to 75 mph and all within 1 second distance of each other. Call it tailgating to the first degree. They would have been prosecuted in Germany for such poor driving. No wonder we have so many more accidents and death rates than they do.
I am totally opposed to all speed cameras. They are not accurate and they don’t really do anything expecte raise revenue and force drivers to cocnstantly watch their speedometer rather than concentrate on the road ahead and what is going on around them. I found some interesting information on http://bit.ly/Y59uH that may be of use to readers if they get pinged. Actually you should read it BEFORE you get a ticket.
Robert A Yeldon where is it that tickets are $850? I can see where you would get upset about getting an $850 ticket but I would think that would have to be in the order of reckless driving not a 10 mph over the limit ticket. If I were to be in an area to get an $850 ticket you can bet I would be following the law and about everyone else also.
Then the jokes on you randy, you obviously never read the fines associated with traffic offenses in states that implement these BS “driver responsibiluty” laws. You can EASILY be fined $300-2,000 for such idiotic things as not having proper insurance papers in your glovebox.
That’s right, $150 for 2 years for stupid paperwork, even when the damn idiot officers know you have insurance because it shows up on their computer terminal when then run your plate.
The state where the law of the land was born over 200 years ago, said FU to their legislators and lopped off their heads in recalls, and got their law repealed after 1 year. Not only was it a debtors prison trap, but a revenue scheme for one of the leaders whose brother was a traffic ticket lawyer.
Too bad other states don’t have the penises to do what Virginians did. TX, NY, MI, NJ, are all worse off for this law. Harvard educated my ass. They’re all idiot lawyers/businessmen who’ve run this country bankrupt. Some 1st class education system.
I also invested in a good LASER jammer. These are worth the money just for the entertainment value. Look at the cop’s face when you drive by and his laser gun cannot lock onto your vehicle’ speed.
Which jammer did you choose?
I have stated before I almost got a reckless driving ticket in VA doing 75 in a 55. The cop was nice and gave me a speedometer malfunction ticket. I was driving to MD from NC. Trying to save 1/2 hour to an hour. Prolly ended up getting about the same amount of time after the stop. but anyways, I hate that dumb law. You Have to go to court and it is highly recommended you get a lawyer if you get VA’s Reckless driving. Which would have really sucked for me since I was still 1 hour and 30 mins from home. but yeah i travel to Bristow, VA for music concerts all the time and the traffic on I-66 goes 70-75 mph on the 55 mph zone and 80 mph in the 65 mph zone, so by law a lot of those people should be getting reckless driving. Personally I think the law makes people hate the police more.
Also Eric Peters should know that since he is from VA, he should know that radar detectors are ILLEGAL in VA and DC.
i used to use a detector, it saved me a few times. Then it broke and I didn’t feel like getting fixed nor shelling out $300 more for a new one.
Randall you hit the nail right on the head. If the speed limit on the sign says 55 mph and the police allow you to drive 15 to 20 mph over that speed without any consequences or very minor consequences then the speed limit is actually about 74 mph. That is the speed limit that people set their cars at or under. No rocket science there. If there was no speed limit the 85 percentile would be a lot higher than that unless the can not get around slower cars.
People here say to set the speed limit at the 85 percentile without any enforcement and light traffic and perfect road conditions. Guess what? That is the speed that people would then drive with higher traffic congestion and in the rain. It has been shown that people do not slow down no matter what the road conditions are until they start seeing people in the ditch or an accident.
Can you say multicar pile-up in fog or cars in the ditch with snow packed roads.
People from this site say it is only about the 85 percentile speeds that should set the speed limits. Why is it then that the 85 percentile speeds increase significantly on newly paved roads? The reasons why people are traveling slower or faster should not change because a road is repaved. What this shows is that people do not take into account their surroundings that should be a major limiting factor of speeds but only the way the car feels.
@james-
I agree. On the DC beltway, 80, 85mph is normal (during light traffic times), which means that everyone there is guilty of a criminal offense. I got tagged a mile in to NC from the south, which really is a different world. You cross the state line, to no fanfare, the speed limit drops, with little posting, and the road is exactly the same except for the cops waiting for you. I had to drive entirely down the state of VA twice to take care of the charges, and some of the judges will suspend your license outright.
@randy-
Traffic studies show that changing the speed limit has little effect on the speed people drive. One recent example showed that by switching from unlimited to limited the average speed changed 1mph. You can read all about the science here:
short: http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2009/bhspi-iteco.pdf
full: http://www.bhspi.org/BPpapers/files/BHSPI_ITE6_Denver090715f.pdf
We say 85th because it has been shown to be safer. Studies prove that underposting by 5% causes 5% more accidents, and underposting by 10% causes 10% more accidents. And yes, newer, smoother roads are safer, so why wouldn’t the speed increase to reflect that?
Anyone who supports any standard other than 85th percentile is really elevating politics above safety.
James I totally agree that changing the speed limits makes no difference. When people can not read signs and there is no enforcement then changing the signs means nothing. Now where there is any type of enforcement then changing speed limit signs does make a difference and people drive the speed the police allow.
Answer my question why is it that speeds increase on newly paved roads? Why is that possible if the people are actually driving according to their surroundings? My answer is that people drive according to how they feel like and possibly their safety but not others.
James if you have people driving 80 mph and drecrease the speeds to 70 mph and keep it there with enforcement then there will be far less fatal accidents and it takes no rocket science to know that. I still want to know how many miles a day each of you drive to justify going way over any limit? Everyone that I have heard here says that they took a trip once and it saved them a lot of time. Why is it that they speed the other 99% of the time then? It is because they say it is their right not because they have any need to.
One of the last articles here was talking about a road that was underposted even though if you looked at the road it had the maximum speed that should have been on it because of surroundings which no one looks at. Even if they say a road like that maybe could be increased by 5 or 10 mph. It would have saved them 15 to 30 sceconds of driving time if it was changed. All of this to increase the chances of an accident or killing local kids a lot. Are your 15 seconds of time worth a kids life?
James when I was talking about repaved roads I was not talking about roads that affected driving before they were repaved. Most roads before they are repaved do not affect driving safety that much unless there are of course pot holes or severe bumps. The reason people speed up a lot when a road is repaved is because it is so smooth it does not feel like you are traveling 10 or 15 mph faster but you are and it does affect your stoppiing distance negatively and also avoiding accidents. It is a fact that happens many times and it shows the speed people travel is not dependent on the traffic around them or the surounding area that you should be driving slower for particularly in residential type areas or in business districts. People drive according to how smooth the car feels. If they get used to driving 80 mph on an interstate they drive excessively when they leave the interstate because of the way the car feels to them. Driving 40 mph or 55 mph seems to slow to them because they are used to higher speeds even though the area they are now on is much less safe for them and the people around them.
@randy:
Surroundings includes the road type, you idiot.
No, in opposition to rocket science, it takes statistics and traffic engineering. Except those show the opposite to your “common sense.” It’s ok, I’m sure the earth is flat too, because common sense says if it was round the water would all spill off.
And no one here is advocating speeding when kids are at risk. Well, unless your kids play on the highway. (Which, if they do, I’d swerve to hit them. For the sake of the gene pool.)
Also, in my previous post it says @james instead of @randall. My apologies.
Is sharing a person’s personal driving record a phenomenon of English speaking Countries? In Germany and Mexico, citations and points are issues between the Driving License division and me. Allowing access by an insurance company or anyone for that matter is protected by strict privacy laws.
I use a blend mount for my V1 and occasionally Bel Sti when I venture into VA, DC, or military bases. The problem with suction cups is that, no matter how good they are, such as the ones from V1, they lose suction when outside temperature reaches certain limits, which happens quite a lot during summer and winter months.
Say you are chugging along on an interstate. The cups lose suction, and bam, your radar locator drops from your windshield onto the floor. You will have to slow down, maybe even stop, just to reinstall the locator. Then there is no guarantee that it will stay on, when the outside temperature is only -5.
I installed blend mounts into all of my vehicles so that I only have to move my one V1 and one Sti around as the occasion calls for. I have the new mounts with the pivot built in. Those mounts are good for BOTH V1 AND Sti, which is great for someone like me who drives all over the places.
Here is the link: http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=mgt&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=720745265&Count2=637885689&CategoryID=101&Target=products.asp
Mark, go screw your Argentinean broad and let American people drive below or at speed limits!
I’ll put in another good word about the STI, and also recommend mounting behind the grill with a remote display. Essentially nil chance of theft, doesn’t anger cops as they don’t see it, and no chance of it falling off half way down the road. It does limit rear reception though. I attacked mine with a soldering iron and a few meters of ethernet cable, but I would recommend using the add-on kit; I now have to decode the display since every time i try to correct the wiring differing segments would go out. Usable, but awkward.
Another aspect to examine is laser jamming. A nice laser jamming kit will cost about the same as the detector, and will buy you 5-10 seconds to slow down to the limit before it allows the detector to get a lock on you. Lasers don’t give you the advanced warning that radar will, so a laser detector is all but useless with it.
I just love posting as Randy. I am an idiot without a brain and have severe problems.
Anon, I love STi for its stealth, but how do you deal with situations such as when cops close in half a mile away from behind and your STi starts to chirp? With V1, if it says “cops at 6″ but I cannot get a visual from behind, I just kick it up a notch right away and lose the goose. It seems that it would take maybe 5 to 10 seconds to figure that out with the STi, by which time the cop could well see you and chase you down if you start to pull away at extralegal speeds.
You could claim that the signal strength indicator on the STi tips you off on the direction of incoming radar, but I have yet to see any documented proof, or to experience it personally, that the strength indicator would behave much differently between these following scenarios: when cops sit far ahead up the road and when they close in on you very rapidly from behind.
Even with V1, I would not speed up when it is dark out because I could not really tell how far behind a cop is. I once was on Ohio Turnpike at night and V1 started to point back. I had to slow down to the point that I had to keep it in the right lane because everyone else was at extralegal speeds. I figured better safe than sorry, even though the signal could be coming from a leaky detector in a vehicle traveling in the same direction coming up from rear.
You are correct. There’s no good way to handle the situation. I’ve taken to slowing down to between 5 and 10 over is someone is gaining on me at night, either they are a cop, or I have a new rabbit to follow from a quarter mile back. Cops can never drive even near the limit, so any radar flags take care of themselves in a few minutes, either from the the front or from the rear.
(A 700$ ticket/lawyer/etc helped instill some of that paranoia in me though, and I’ve sworn never to live in Virginia because of it.)
Randy:
You add extra factors to my scenarios that weren’t there. 85 MPH? What if there’s no one at all for miles around on an apparently deserted interestate? What if the traffic flow is averaging 65 MPH? Doesn’t much matter, because the mere fact that I was doing 85 is enough to start the legal harassment. In neither case did I harm or jeopardize another by this mere fact. Either way, all you (or any other individual) has to do is pull over and let me pass, and you’ll never see me again. We are all individuals, not groups thereof subject to imaginary group harm.
The “follow the law” or “if you were all legal you have nothing to hide” argument doesn’t wash with me. The state again exists to protect each individual’s rights to life, liberty, and the fruits of his labour. Suppose I don’t bother to renew my car’s registration every year to the tune of 48$. Have I harmed anyone? Threatened anyone? No, and there are states that register cars only at the point of sale, thus putting the lie to any argument against me; But I can still have my life and finances ruined for it.
I have yet to see any serious article on this site argue for any seriously, legitimately dangerous act. With regard to drunken driving, I see arguments against sobriety checkpoints, not arguments in favour of inebriation behind the wheel. Mr Peters above did not advocate driving faster than posted limits; he simply acknowledged that most people do, and suggested that many such limits are thus posted to entrap people not otherwise disposed to commit a *real* crime, and give no serious thought to what might really be safe; they’re meaningless in the real world.
If you seriously want to limit intoxicated driving, you must first change the culture which boils essentially down to “BEEEER!! WOOOOOOOO!!!” With a redneck (and college, and other) culture that drinks for the sake of drinkin’, or with the objective of being unable to stand, it’s no wonder it’s such a problem. I would much rather take my chances with an intoxicated driver than with the State, though, whose got a quota and a bloodhound nose out to see what else he might be able to do me for; at least I have a fighting chance with the drunk, and can legally defend myself.
I do not trust law enforcement officers and government functionaries, for the simple reason that they do not have MY best interests in mind during the course of our encounter. Parents, family, –hell, even teachers are paid to have my best interests in mind. Not so the government agent.
When you generate laws and regulations and charges that serve little purpose other than to make a supposedly free citizenry colour inside the lines: lines which exist for no other purpose than to tamp down independent thought and action, generate revenue, conjure the illusion of safety and concern, and remind you whose *really* in charge; and create havoc and disarray in their lives when they had no intent whatever to harm or defraud anyone of his life, liberty, or property, you simply create contempt and disregard for the law.
Sorry for the ramble, had a lot piling up in there..
John I can not help you guys are stupid. This site is like telling a kid not to shoot himself and hand him a loaded gun. This site is about breaking laws and how to get by doing it without losing our license.
Tell me how promoting a radar detector is not promoting reckless driving? it says it will cost you a lot of money if you drive dangerously but just put a radar detctor in your car and you are fine to kill as many people as you like. Do not slow down just put a radar detector in and you can go faster.
Tell me how promoting ways of getting around the laws does not promote breaking them?
One more thing John, if you believe speed is fine then go on the internet and do some searches of accident scenes. You will see what speeding cars do.
Before I was even driving I closly knew 2 different guys that both were speeding in different locations and both were killed and one had a very seriously injured passenger. They were doing nothing wrong except for driving too fast of which you say does not make any difference.
This is a sample video of thousands out there where someone was thinking they were ok to go over the limit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgupL3Lb_pI
One more thing John. You say you would rather deal with an intoxicated person on the road rather than deal with the state. You seem to forget that thousands of people deal with intoxicated persons on our roads each year and after that they never deal with any problems with the state again because they are not alive to deal with the state. I personally know people that drink. They also say that they no longer drink and drive because they do not want to deal with the consequences of dealing with a DUI. I have first hand knowledge that the “state” is helping to keep drunks off the road and saving hundreds of lives.
I have a question about speeding. Why do you need to speed? Is it because you think it is your right or is it because you drivie thousands of miles each week and it is needed to save yiou days of travel each month? My guess for the most part people speed because they feel like it and only saves them a few minutes each month.
If the police have no specific legal obligation to protect your life, say if someone has a gun to your head, why do they go wonky about driving a car?
“a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen.” -Warren vs District of Columbia, after three women were raped, beaten for 14 hours and police never came after numerous 911 calls were placed
But don’t listen to me. I am brain dead and make things up all the time.
You can get a decent red light/speed camera locator for $99
http://www.gpsangel.com
You are very right mostly John. We do have the right to life and liberty as long as it does not interfere with others right to life and liberty. This site promotes unsafe practices like drinking and driving that kills thousands of innocent people each year, supports driving well over the limit in residential areas, supports your right to run red lights. All of these things kill thousands each year. Where is the right to life? If you follow the law you will not be harassed or ticketed. If enough people do not run red lights there will be “no” red light cameras. If you do not drive excessively over the limit there will be no speeding tickets or radar guns or cameras. Millions of people seem to get by without any of these tickkets. If the law is not correct you work to get it changed or drive somewhere else. You do not break the law just because you call it your liberty to break a law. Is it ok to have someone shoot your family? Is it their liberty? There is no difference with someone shooting your family than a person drinking and driving except for drinking and driving there are some blanks in the gun but there is a bullet in it. The same with driving excessively fast or running red lights. There is one bullet in the gun. The faster you drive or the more you run red lights then the more bullets you put in the gun.
Your example of driving 85 mph if other vehicles are driving 65 mph or 70 is much more dangerous and adds a bullet to the gun. If there is not traffic around you and you are in the middle of nowhere then you may be correct. 85 mph in traffic simply is not needed and is a lot more dangerous then 75 mph but you and others here do not understand that because you have never heard of physics. Even places where there are usually no limits they add limits where there is traffic.
If you do not agee with laws then work to get them changed and make this site a place to change laws as long as the changes do not promote killing others. This site moved away from changing laws a long time ago and is now a site that promotes breaking laws.
I have read far too much of “Randy”. Having served a time in law enforcement and seeing all the agenda and stats spewn over the past 30 years now proven wrong… I will never forget Ph.D’s and others say that their research “proves” that for every 5 mph over 55 (if we had raised it after 13 years of the NMSL there will be an additional 3,000-6,000 deaths on the highway. Now, most states are at 70 or 75 (some at 65, true), the fatality rate over the past decade has come DOWN (SAFER with HIGHER speeds and speed limits!) on the historical plane. Now, “Randy” suggests that whatever the speed limit is, anything over is “less safe”.
I drive an average of 50,000 mile per year mostly around the Midwest and weekend traffic is different that weekday traffic for sure, but for the most part, except weekend vacation traffic and rush hour, 7 or more of 10 cars on the interstate or high-grade 4 lane system are in the left going at or under the posted. when traffic slows, it compresses and makes it hard for others to change lanes, merge into traffic, etc. It gives traffic less “outs” and openings.
In the mid 1980′s to the early 1990′s when most states slowly went back to “pre-1973 NMSL 55″ days, fatals continued to decline over time, even with greater amounts of traffic. Randy certainly knows that in the early 1980′s, former Calif HP Commissioner (Craig? Glendon?..) said in a symposium as I remember that the number of tickets on the interstate tripled with the 55 NMSL in 1973. I was also in the insurance biz for years in the 80′s and 90′s and one of our “big wigs” who was also involved with the NIIHS (I will forego his name here, but he is from Milwaukee) said “sshh…the 55 is the best thing that ever happened to insurance and govm’t; we can raise risk revenue without writing the higher risk becasue now the fines are written within the safe design standards of the roadways and there are improving safety measure in cars and drivers, so we get safer every year but we can write risk like there’s no tomorrow!”
Lastly to say that this site promote “breaking laws”, I say our Founders broke laws to do what was right. At that, I don’t think it is promoting breaking laws it is promoting people stand up to irrational laws that don’t increase safety, but greatly increase enforcmenet and thus control. This site gives people rational basis to contact their legislators and try to get more reasoned and engineering based traffic laws rather than political based. The government, MADD and many other organizations have dominated the agenda and many learned people have researched and found these to have morphed into “neo-prohibitionist” organizations. I can tell you this: the data on alcohol is skewed because the cops in most areas of the country will write “alcohol” related even if a passenger or non-driving person in the scene had alcohol on them and the driver was “stone sober”. A few years ago I know of a report here where a car was driving in St. Paul, and a drunk stumbled out of bar down a sidewalk and then suddenly jumped in front of a car (driving just UNDER the speed limit there in-town) who had no time to react. The driver of the car had NO alcohol, but it was registered in the report as an “alcohol related fatality”. Also, even accidents ocurring well under the speed limit, most cops automatically check “speed” as a contributing cause. Years ago a friend of mine had a tree fall on his car in a storm. When reviewing the police report for the insurance claim they laughed that a box “speed” (was) involved with this accident, though the car was unoccupied and, by the way, not in motion either…I digress.
All the emphasis outside of NMA has been on how to “crack down” on drivers, rather than helping them BE better, safer, more efficient drivers. Read Mark Rask’s “American Autobahn”. Stunning to see that detailed, peer reviewed research proves that with NO speed limit, those areas of the Autobahn are SAFER in every respect than our interstate. American’s should insist on laws and standards that help us be better drivers, more efficient, safer and sometimes faster and sometimes not where appropriate. Some of you out there think our current governmnet who wants us to be more like Europe? (who drive faster, safer…) As one of my friends who is a CPA and auditor for a large insurance company that actually underwrites government agencies said: “traffic laws have gone far beyond the threshold where they no longer improve safety and now greatly enhance enforcement and revenue. And that’s the point of this site. To help people stand up against laws that are for revenue and control, not safety.
MW you make many points and on many of them you are wrong. You say the death rate went down because we increased speeds and limits. You and others here are ignorant of course of the facts that if we drove the same cars and on the same roads as we did in the early 80s the fatailty rate would be up tremendously. Cars are designed better and seatbelts are required in most all states and air bags and many road hazards were removed. With all of those changes our fatality rate should have went to less than half from what it was. Statistics have to go along with facts to make any sense.
As far as unlimited speeds go I can name many interstate sections where you would kill yourself driving 120 mph. YOu also have to remember that Germany enforces reckless driving and drunk driving. Both of which causes many accidents in the US. Just the other day I had a truck driving about 2 car lengths behind me going 55 mph. If I would have slowed down for anything he would have been in my bumper. I could not go any faster if I wanted to because of cars in front of me. Go ahead and have more instuction for drivers because it is obvious that many need it and many from this site do. They are more worried about being one of the fastest drivers on the road rather than worry about anyone else on the road.
Another poster on this site was saying that the speed limit should be moved up to in his example 70 mph because that is what traffic was flowing at. I then asked him if people should get ticketed if they are doing well over that new set speed and he said no. It is not about setting the speed limits correctly for the road but the ability people want to break any of the laws and get away with it.
I also was driving in the early 80s and places where I drove there were not that many more tickets given than what are given out now. Everyone knew what speed they were able to drive at and drove at that speed ticket free.
Randy:
Any given activity — driving 85 MPH on an interstate highway, picking my nose while changing the oil — does NOT become “unsafe” simply because a government entity says so. It’s high time Americans man up and assert our rights to live how we wish, drive how we wish, eat how we wish, and raise our own children as we wish without the interference of those who think they are our betters. The government’s proper job is to protect our rights to life, liberty, and the fruits of our labours. It has redefined its job so as to perpetuate its power and influence, and to do that, it first needs money. Traffic harassment is but one way it achieves this.
Not surprising more countries are turning to their GPS systems to notify other users of areas where ticket cameras and waiting police are.
Also in some states, like bankrupt MI(wonder why) run by governor goober, a reckless charge will carry a $1,000 driver resp. “fee” ILLEGAL TAXXXXXXXXXXX, that has an arcane method of payment, because they copied it verbatim probably straight from NJ without proofreading, because we all know how FUBAR that place is.
Most in MI 60-70% have told the state to go screw themselves, and have left for states that will grant them a new license when it’s suspended, or are driving suspended, because that’s what happens when you refuse to pay, among adding interest and late fees which raise the TAXXXXXXX in some cases to over $10,000.
Most if not all cops and even some judges have backlashed and refused to issue tickets or accept guilty pleas that will incur fines or MORE fines for people already suffering. But then you have to ask, why did they get caught again for bad driving, they deserve a fee. Well they sure as hell don’t deserve one that bankrupts them and goes straight into state coffers to spend on pork barrel like stupid tourist campaign ads to lure out of state bad drivers. Because yes, MI CAN give outters a nice vacation cruise ticket with a “fee” that will travel back with you to your home state. Did I mention they can also take the money from your tax refund, bank acct, freeze assets and garnish wages to collect? That’s right, it’s a freaking tax levied by the state treasury.
GPS if you are driving recklessly then maybe you deserve to pay a $10,000 tax.
That sounds like a state ripe for revolution.
That tyranny can not be suffered indefinitely.
States like Michigan should take people like me and throw me in jail rather than fine me.
Revolution is exactly what happened in VA when they pulled this stunt. I fueled the media fire(wa post) that got them riled up to form a lynch mob and impeach their legislators. They eventually repealed their driver resp. law. And it will never be seen again.
What was really the kicker, is how it involved the relative of one of the “big men” in charge who enacted the law, as a diversion for more business in traffic ticket cases to his family member. And also how some of the legislators got caught in their own law and had to hire their buddy in law to bail them out in traffic court to avoid a $1,000 fee for speeding 15 over er “reckless driving”
Eric does not understand that he can easily get a ticket for having two large things mounted on his front windshield blocking his view probably illegal in most all states.
Not in MI anymore he can’t. They ruled it idiotic because the law was so broad in its definition/interpretation. How does fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror affect straight driving or turning corners? Move your freakin head if you can’t see.
Should they also outlaw A pillars because you can’t see that cute little deer on the bend of that curve, who is about to become bambi burger?
GPSs as you say Michigan is screwed up anyway. They have laws that you can drive as fast as you like as long as you can get over 15 percent of the drivers to drive that speed according to others that have posted here. Why would they care if you can see the road anyway with a gps in the window and a radar detector and a rear mirror and your fuzzy dice. If you move your head enough you might be able to see part of the road.
Don/t mind me I am a person who does not have a brain in my head. I did manage to have someone else help me to post as Randy though. Fun post wasn’t it?
Hey, um, me… if, well, I am gonna post as someone else, make sure I don’t post at 4.20 as them, and 4.25 as you. I mean me.
I guess I will have to further disambiguate my handle.
Not me, someone else.
I’ve always liked the Passport 8500.
Randy, again ask NMA for the email address of people who you believe is posting as you.
Once again, I don’t impersonate other people.
Eric Peters, you are only encouraging people to do unsafe things. I hope someone in your family is killed by a speeding driver.
And George, don’t even try to post as me. I know it’s you, your just too hung up on conspiracies to believe that I’m not one.
According to NHTSA statistics, less than 5% of fatal crashes are caused by speeding drivers, so it’s highly unlikely that a member of anyone’s family would end up being killed by a speeding driver.
Second, going 80 to 85 mph on rural interstate standard highways is well within the normal speed of traffic (or 5 to 10 mph faster than it at most). There’s nothing inherently unsafe about it.
Have you ever considered that speed limits on limited access highways are for the most part completely arbitrary? How is it that I-66 (a 6 to 8 lane divided interstate standard highway) has a 55 mph while a number of winding 2 lane undivided roads have the exact same limit? It’s quite obvious that posting the same limit on both types of roads effectively makes the limit meaningless and doesn’t mean that someone driving 75 on the 6 lane interstate is going to kill a member of someone’s family
Arif a lot of times it is not about the road that determines the speed limits but about how much traffic is usually on it. You could probably go 150 mph on a straight road without any traffic that is 5 lanes wide and cause no problems until you start increasing the traffic and then higher speeds kill.
Shooting yourself with a gun also does not mean you are going to die but it increases your chances a lot just like speeding or drinking and driving.
Traffic speed on highways regulates itself for the most part. The more traffic there is, the lower the speed. That doesn’t mean that we need to have a 55 mph limit on a 8 lane modern interstate on a 24/7 basis.
Second, 70 to 90 percent of traffic drives within a 10 mph range of speed. So, if in free flowing traffic the 10 mph pace speed ranges from 62 to 72 mph and the 85th percentile speed of traffic is 71 mph, then the appropriate speed limit is 70 mph, NOT 55 mph.
Third, if you come up with an arbitrary definition of speeding, then your argument that speeding makes it more likely that one will die pretty much falls flat on its face. Speeding should be defined as driving significantly faster than the flow of traffic, not exceeding the arbitrary NMSL inspired number on the white rectangular sign.
Arif Ok. So if you change the speed limit to 70 mph because that is the fastest that you should be traveling so do you agree to ticket everyone going 72 mph or over since the speed limit was set in a responsible way at 70?
I believe it would be a waste of police resources to ticket everyone going 72 mph or above. A dangerous driver should be obvious and not require one to use an electronic device to determine his speed. Someone going 72 mph when the 80 percent of drivers are going between 60 and 70 and 95 percent of drivers are going between 55 and 75 really isn’t dangerous and shouldn’t be a target of law enforcement.
On the other hand, someone going 120 mph (like some of those sport bike riders) in that scenario would be dangerous and would not require a law enforcement officer to use a speed measuring device to determine whether the driver is dangerous or not (though he should use a video recording device to present as evidence in court).
Thanks Arif I rest my case. As you say it does not matter what the speed limit is set to even if it is done in an acceptable way like you say it should be you say it is still ok to drive as fast as anyone wants to.
You backed everything up I have ever said.
You said a speeding driver should be very noticeable. I seen evidence of a major crash caused by a truck driver nonly extimated to be going 15 mph over the limit. Very unnoticable to you but deadly.
I saw evidence today of a tractor trailer who had a severe accident that killed noone only by luck, and he was exceeding the speed limit by 0mph. Obviously, it is too dangerous to drive the speed limit, and we should ticket everyone who drives that fast.
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Arif, I agree with you, and would love to see a society where your proposed laws were enacted.
James what do you say about people from this site saying it is fine to do 10 to 15 mph over the limit in places like school zones? I suppose you would say it is fine to pass stopped school busses also. There are ignorant drivers out there and you can back that up by reading the posts on this site.
Randy, do you have to wear your helmet all the time or only when you play on a hard surface?
No I do not wear a helmet when I drive my car. People around where I drive follow the laws a lot more closely than all of you that post here. You would be in jail here the way some of you say that you drive.
Randy,
You appear to have the habit of misrepresenting other people’s arguments and then countering those altered arguments instead of addressing the person’s actual position. This is known as the strawman logical fallacy.
I never said that it was okay for people to drive as fast as they want. If I explicitly said that or implied it, then why would I have stated that one riding a motorcycle at 120 mph in 70 mph traffic is dangerous?
Second, this discussion is about driving at safe speeds on limited access highways, not driving through school zones. It’s disingenuous at best to attempt to equate driving 15 mph over the limit in a school zone with children present to driving 15 mph over a 55 mph posted limit on a 8 lane modern interstate with a pace speed of 62 to 72 mph and a 85th percentile speed of 71 mph.
If you can’t stay on topic and continue to misrepresent others’ arguments, then all I can say is that, in my opinion, you have little to no credibility.
@randy
What state do you live in?
Ok Arif you did not state your position. You brought up that maybe 120 mph was too fast. Is 100 mph fine then? You were the one that brought up the excessive speeds. As far as going well over the limit in a shcool zone some on here say it is fine to do. Ask Randall.
Arif I forgot to say that I have never driven on an 8 lane 55 mph highway. You must live in California or some other very large city. There are only 2 lanes on the majority of highways that I ever drive with rare places having 3 lanes. I have to ask you how many miles do you drive each day? For the most part people only drive less than 20 miles anywhere on a daily basis to work or other things. I think once I heard a lot less than that. If that is the case for most people why do you have to drive 10 to 20 mph over any limit? How much time do you actually think you are saving?