The Truth About Speed Cameras: They Don’t Work
Anyone who believes that speed cameras have a large impact on the speed of the vehicles on a freeway should check out this study published last month.
In order to evaluate how effective speed cameras are at reducing driver speeds, Craig Peterson of RadarTest.com conducted an experiment using the speed cameras in Arizona.
Here’s an excerpt from his findings (emphasis added):
Over a period of weeks this spring I conducted traffic surveys near speed vans and fixed cameras in several locations around the metropolitan Phoenix area. I did the same in Mesa, Glendale, Prescott Valley and Star Valley, Arizona.
To create before/after speeds, I first measured speeds one half mile before the camera, then at the same distance after the camera. If the speed camera tub-thumpers are right, the after speeds should be noticeably slower.
I conducted the surveys using accepted Institute of Transportation Engineers (ITE) methodologies [...] I sampled cars equally from each travel lane and to make the statistics even more unimpeachable, I recorded the speeds of at least 200 vehicles at each location, twice the number dictated by ITE guidelines. [...]
Interestingly, the numbers from every site were nearly identical.
In [the] composite chart of representative results [included below] from four of the freeway locations, it can be seen that far from slowing traffic, the cameras had no effect on freeway speeds.
In fact, at some locations average speeds were higher after the cameras. Okay, the small increases are statistically insignificant.
But the numbers are clear: speed cameras do not decrease highway speeds.
Aside from a brief dab at the brakes by a few drivers in reaction to fixed speed cameras—frequently resulting in screeching tires from cars behind—most seemed oblivious to them. Hardly any slowed in reaction to the speed vans.
As Mr. Peterson points out at the end of the article, if speed cameras have no impact on driver speed, then what are they good for?
Oh, right.
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I’m sorry, but Mr Peterson’s “test” has a couple quite major flaw. I live in Mesa, AZ and travel the local freeways daily. If he wanted to, truly, test his theories, he would have sampled the normal speeds around here before the cameras were installed. Before the cameras were installed, if I were traveling 75mph in a 65mph zone, I was about the slowest vehicle out there. Now, it’s hard to find anyone doing over 60mph in a 65mph zone! This is despite the fact that the state has announced that nobody would be ticketed, unless they were doing greater than 10mph over the limit. To wit: If the posted limit is 65mph, you won’t get a ticket, unless you’re doing 76mph. Take it from someone who LIVES here. They work TOO well!
Everything written with the facts about the speed cameras in Arizona show that they do work. Even what is written in the mentioned article show that they work It stated that the average speed was within a couple of mph of the speed limit. The state results from accident rates show that they are far lower.
During the Middle Ages, Summer temperatures were about 1,5° warmer and Winter temperatures were around 6° warmer. I can’t find any statistics but my gut feeling is there were significantly less motor vehicles and power plants during this time.
Around the 1300′s, the Little Ice Age began and about 1900, the planet began to warm again. In the 1970′s, I remember the genuine concern of the lower temperatures and their possible impact. It was during this time some obscure scientist from Sweden suggested, if great quantities of Co² could be released into the atmosphere, the Earth may warm again. Of course, the Earth soon began warming again so the problem went away.
Germany’s Autobahn death rate is 2 people lower per 100 Billion kilometers traveled than that of the US. Studies have also shown that people who drive over 160Km/h (100MPH) are less likely to be involved in accidents than those who travel at less than 120Km/h (75 MPH).
Montana proved Speed Limits are all about money when it imposed a 75MPH limit and the death toll nearly doubled. The Limit remains in effect with no apologies.
Co² has never preceded Global Warming in the past. Why is this time any different? Anyone who thinks Man can change the Earth’s warming and cooling phases, please contact me. I have a bridge for sale in Heidelberg you may be interested in.
Doug global warming means nothing to you because you will be dead by the time it has a lot of affect. That does not change the fact that it is happening. There are thousands of statistics that say you are wrong but just saying it is not so is idiotic.
Statistics mean nothing unless they are backed by reasons for those statistics. If an area has heavy drinkers and their accidents statistics are lower than anywhere else does not say that it is because of their heavy drinking. Maybe they all get taxis.
Randy says, “but just saying it is not so is idiotic.”
Gee, this sounds familiar. Where have I seen someone deny something just because they idiotically didn’t want to believe it? Oh, I know! In Randy’s posts! Pretty much every one, now that I think about it.
Randy says, “Statistics mean nothing unless they are backed by reasons for those statistics.”
Yeah, I guess you’d actually have to READ THE STUDY to know, but this would require that you acknowledge that the study exists. And as we all know, anyone who doesn’t agree with Randy must be lying.
Regarding the science behind global warming, one might observe that science has a pretty good track record: genetics, life-saving medical procedures, space travel, computers and communication…the list goes on. But, science has been known to make mistakes–it just takes a little while for it to self-correct. And to me, it seems that the water levels in the Great Lakes are very much tied to decades long cycles of cold, snowy winters vs. shorter, warmer and less precipitation producing winters.
So, having said that I believe I’d say, nein danke, Ich kaufe die Brücke nicht.
Fahrenfreude you are an idiot like usual. How much science does it take to see hundreds of acres of ice that has melted away in the past couple of decades? An diot could not see that.
Fahrenfreude how about those thousands that get tickets for 3 mph over the limit. Great study that was.
Doug I just noticed today that there were no sensors in the road today calculating how many miles I was driving today. Is there a web site to report my miles? I did not get in an accident today either so I guess those figures went up pretty much for the US today.
Randy says, “An diot could not see that.”
Hmm, is the “diot” a species native to your country? What is it like? Sounds like its vision is not very well developed, much like your intellect.
Randy says, “Fahrenfreude how about those thousands that get tickets for 3 mph over the limit. Great study that was.”
It wasn’t a study, just an observation which I supported with statements anyone could find. So, let me get this straight: you can spew whatever nonsense you like, totally unsupported, but you require everyone else to support their statements with studies? There’s a name for that, Randy, it’s called hypocrisy. And it pretty much negates anything you say. About all it’s good for is the entertainment value, which by the way, is substantial!
Thanks again for a delightful post!
Fahrenfreude what is it with your idiotic sources like this? “supported with statements anyone could find”
Yes Fahrenfreude there are probably dozens of peope that tell lies like you do. All you have to do is quote them and that is your source.
Let’s look at Randy’s post again, but with a few things changed. Hmm, what’s that smell? Could it be….hypocrisy?
“Fahrenfreude [substitute Randy],what is it with your idiotic sources like this? “supported with statements anyone could find.”
Oh, you mean like: “Here is what I found. It is easy to search for facts/”
“Yes Fahrenfreude[Or Randy] there are probably dozens of peope that tell lies like you do. All you have to do is quote them and that is your source.”
Oh, so anyone who agrees with you is right, and anyone who disagrees is wrong, never mind the facts, eh Randy? Gosh, if I were a lawyer and I could win cases by just saying “He’s lying” I would be rich beyond belief.
Is that how people talk and think in your country? So you have no economy and no legal system beyond religious tribunals? I notice that you haven’t replied to this assertion of mine and as we all know, in the law, “He who is silent is understood to consent.” So I’m right, eh?
So, do you like yak-herding? Have you ever thought of moving somewhere else? There are other lifestyles you could try. But you’d need to get an education.
Oh, wait! I’ve got it! You’re probably like one of those guys in the Dilbert comic strip. You’re an Elbonian aren’t you, Randy?!
Oh, gosh. Will the fun never end? :)
Fahrenfreude leave. You do not even know how to drive. How can anyone expect you to bring facts to a site if you have no drivers training and you make mistakes and poor judgement.
Oh, my side! Randy, please, I can hardly breathe from laughing so hard.
“You make poor judgement.” LOL! Who are you, Conan the Barbarian? You’re like a parody of those politically incorrect characters in movies who can’t speak English. Why should I leave when I have a perfect driving record and you can’t even speak or think?
Wait, maybe I’ve got it all wrong. Perhaps you don’t herd yaks. Maybe you are a yak! If that’s true, then I suppose I have to compliment you. Pretty smart for a yak.
Oh, please, keep it comin’. You couldn’t make up comedy this funny.
Fahrenfreude you have a perfect driving record? I am sure the speeding semi driver probably did too a few months ago when he killed one kid and injured many and caused hundreds of thousands in damage. I heard the accident about 2 miles away. He was a far better driver though because he was able to place a few more ounces of pressure on the gas pedal. Being a bad driver does not mean you are going to create an accident or kill people but it increases your chances a lot. You are a high risk.
Hooray Doug!
Can anyone guess what the main greenhouse gas is? WATER VAPOR! in some places up to 80-85% Also, CO2 is not a cause of global warming it is an after affect to what really changing earth’s temperature: THE SUN! I know I know its really hard for people like Randy to understand such a simple explination to things, however I guess one cant always hope that people are able to look into the big picture of things.
Realistically humans do have an impact on life for other species and the earth. When it comes to the earth however, its MINIMAL. For all realistic cases life will continue to live on. Based on scientific principles species existence itself is a cycle. Something always comes around and replaces all the old stuff that died off.
Why dont we just blame Tectonic Shift on humans too while we are at it! ;) Cuz at all times the earth’s plates are shifting and eventually the whole world will be diffrent that how we percieve it. Regardless of human effect.
Personally when it comes to vehicles however, it really doesnt matter in the big scheme of things how much mpg a vehicle gets compared to global warming at all. What people really should be complaining about is EMISSIONS! What good is a vehicle that gets 80 mpg if its emissions are crap? I know in the US and other countries there are emissions regulation, but whats to stop government, companies, or people from just wanting better emissions vehicles to be made. I know its being done but in case of the global warming issue, that really takes the stage compared to a MPG discrepancy.
Anyway thats really enough for now…in case you (doug) would like to watch an interesting documentary by the BBC please watch “The Great Global Warming Swindle”
Here’s the link for Youtube (its only part 1):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TqqWJugXzs
I REALLY think Randy should watch it too, maybe he’ll learn. ;)
me I have not driven in Nevada. I have driven in states like Kansas where there is a 75 mph limit. That was fast enough. Going faster takes a lot more fuel but of course it is up to you to spend your money as you like. You do not care about global warming or trade deficits or any future for the US and its population or your kids if you have any. All you care about is breaking the law. The speed limit in most western states is higher but that is not good enough for the true law breakers. You and others here spend dozens of hours here on the internet but say you want to speed to save a minute a day so you can watch TV and complain about the government.
I’ve driven 40-50 mpg diesel powered cars for most of the last 30 years . And I do care how much oil we use and I’ve done my part to cut down on carbon by driving diesel powered cars . If you don’t know diesels use least amount of oil and put out the least carbon which is why they are pushed in Europe .
Over 2,200 miles in the last 3 weeks in my diesel powered car I achieved a 52.4 mpgUS average . That is with a week of southern CA freeways & city driving mixed into the speeds I stated .
And in the west on over the long distances it’s not a matter of mins but hours saved behind the wheel . This means less money spent for meals & overnight hotel stays , also a smaller carbon footprint . Not to mention the fact that higher speeds allow for cutting off of the “deadly hours” at the end of a long trip .
This is a documented fact in the wide open west & the southern US . That long trips are more deadly at slower speeds that lead to it taking longer to cross these long distances . Every single rural route in the south & west that now allows for higher speed travel are now safer on an order of magnitude .
And your example of Kansas is less than useless . That is the one state in the west that lives off revenue of travelers from their ridiculously under posted rural limit . The death rate on many highways in Kansas is much higher than on bordering states that allow for faster travel . If you want to use that state as an example as a place to avoid driving across if you can help it , I’m all for that one .
Kansas is well known in the west as a speed trap state $$$$$$ ……………On an average trip across the ~400 miles of rural I-70 it’s not uncommon to see 15-20+ KHP officers fishing for money from passing through traffic , many unmarked . You can’t tell me that is for anything other than revenue they make off of the highway from their lower than average for the region posted limit of 70 mph . No other state in the west or the rest of the county matches that kind of patrolling over it’s empty areas . Many like me go up to Nebraska if possible to go west if it’s not too far out of the way to avoid that state .
Me i would like to see that 52 mpg at the 85+ mph that you say you drive. What car is capable of that? I would say it would be capable of over 65 mpg at 65 mph then.
Funny how I have been across Kansas and MO and CO and IL and WI and IA all without getting amy tickets. I guess it is only idiots they go after. Stay out west is all I can say. It is a lot safer for us Midwest people.
Me I forgot to ask how you come up with how your carbon footprint is less by drving fast?
A VW diesel car , pretty much any of the many tran VW diesels sold in the US over the last 13 years have little trouble hitting that mark if care is taken . With a gearing change to match how they are equipped in Europe that number is easily hit in that speed range . On city/urban loops high 50s to low 60s mpgUS are not uncommon .
They gear vehicles lower here to give them quicker take offs which costs mpgs @ higher speeds . This is why so many here have your assumption that these numbers aren’t realistic at these speeds which just isn’t true when the car is setup properly .
And a biggie in your false assumption is MOST American cars are automatic trans equipped , use outdated by as much as a decade engine tech & geared in a way where they get horrible mpgs at higher speeds but aren’t sold in other countries setup like this . Especially where higher speeds have been the rule forever .
If I remember correctly you have a US setup Ford Fucus which in no way compares to what that car is in other countries , especially in it’s diesel equipped option . The TD man trans version of your car has little trouble seeing these numbers @ speed . And has no trouble hitting close 60 mpgUS in mixed loops .
And over 2,200 miles I used less than 42 gals of fuel , half of which was made from BD made from waste/used vegetable oil . You compare that to one of the SUVs or other gas hogs out there using premium which uses more oil per barrel to produced that barely hit the 10s on the highway . One of those using 220-150 gals over the same distance is a much higher impact over that distance .
If we were to be given the Polo TDI BlueMotion as an option here in the states I would have no trouble hitting low 70s to mid 80s mpgUS on my commutes . I’ve driven that car in Europe and had no trouble hitting that mark with higher speeds mixed in .
Then you throw in the fact that I’ve always driven 45-50 mpg diesels over the last 30 years in cars that had no trouble returning these numbers while driving 70+ mph . I could never have a carbon footprint as big as someone driving a gas guzzler or even many of the common gas powered cars of today . It’s just not possible in a very fuel efficient car like I drive compared to what is the majority on the road today have anything close to their carbon and other pollution impact . Most of what is on the road today in the US wastes more oil in a couple of days then I use in a month over the same drive .
So I’ve done my part over the last 30 years and will not drive slower than I feel safe & comfortable over the long distances I must travel . And I shouldn’t have to because someone couldn’t do simple math of the cost of what they choose to drive at any speed . We should have the highest speed limits possible to encourage drivers to make a more fuel efficient choice in what they buy . Gas should also cost $4-6 a gal at least to push the issue here .
Low limits below what is comfortable for the 85th percentile speed only allows for more waste . The stupid clueless Americans out there to cost of pointless waste are encouraged by lower limits to think they can get away with and repeat their wasteful choice of what they drive a while longer than they could if they drove at the more appropriate higher speeds .
And then you throw in the fact that @ lower speeds many of these distances aren’t crossable in one day . That adds meals out and hotel rooms which increases carbon impact over just going all the way home . While I’m on the road my house is still using energy whether I’m there or not so that adds to my carbon impact . If I’m forced to eat out more and to stay in a hotel for extra nights ($$$$) a year from being forced to lumber along at an uncomfortably slow speed more oil is wasted so more carbon is produced .
WE all learned this when we were forced to fight that stupid 55 over the 23 years it was in place . I for one never slowed down as most everyone else on the road at the time didn’t . I did however choose to drive the most efficient car at any speed I could buy . Gas powered man trans small Toyota’s that had no trouble hitting mid 30s mpgUS @ speed . Then VW diesels of all sorts over the years that always could hit a minimum of mid 40s mpgUS @ speed .
Most states rebelled against the Feds passing laws that raised the limit back to pre NMSL by removing all penalties for ignoring it . I drove in those daily ……..So all that crap about slower limits saving fuel just was never true . It cost $$$ and wasted energy for all that tried to drive that slow more from the time related expenses it created . It also produced more pollution by allowing the owners of the most wasteful vehicles on the road at the time to afford drive them for a while longer .
Me, you are a shining example for all of us. I drove a diesel back in the 80′s and, misbegotten halfbreed GM monstrosity that it was, I loved it. When I was in the market for a new ride a couple of years ago I spent a lot of time trying to figure out if I could hold out for the new 50-state TDI’s to arrive (I really wanted something new, rather than used). I finally wimped out and bought the Japanese model I have now but will absolutely look into these fabulous machines when I’m ready for another new vehicle.
Me says, (in reply to Randy) “And a biggie in your false assumption is MOST American cars are automatic trans equipped , use outdated by as much as a decade engine tech & geared in a way where they get horrible mpgs at higher speeds but aren’t sold in other countries setup like this . Especially where higher speeds have been the rule forever.”
Yeah, Randy. Now who’s using decades-old ideas and statistics, eh?
Me says, “I for one never slowed down as most everyone else on the road at the time didn’t.”
Me neither. Like, umm, cyber high-five dude.
me I agree with at least half of what you said. I agree that we have to use less fuel. I disagree that you said you always drive around 85 mph and got 52 mpg. I agree that many of the older US cars are outdated but things are changing. I disagree that we need higher speed limits than what we have now in most areas. To me 65 mph is plenty and if it is slightly more than that in the wide open areas with little traffic I do not have a problem with that. I have easily driven 1000 miles at what you say are slow MO and Kansas speed limits. Even though your vehicle gets good fuel mileage at 80+ mph it would do better at slower speeds and many vehicles it would make a huge difference. A 20% drop in fuel milage means little for you but if you were driving a 20 mpg vehicle you would be dropped to 16 mpg at your higher speeds. Should we set the limits for the fuel consumption of “MEs” car or do we set it for the average car out there?
You say that no one slowed down when the limit was 55 mph. You must have lived in Nevada or somewhere out west because if you drove here you would not have went that fast for very long or you would have lost your license.
As for Kansas giving out tickets all the time you show your ignorance because as you say you stay out of the state. The limit there is 70 mph or 75 I do not remeber which right now. When I have traveled across the state I did not see anyone driving 80 mph so I saw no one getting tickets. If you have a problem where you can not drive slower than 80 mph for a few hundred miles then you should not be driving. If you drive over 1000 miles each day then you need to get a new line of work like a trucker.
As for that stupid 55 mph speed that you talk about, if we had everyone in gas lines which that was why it was put in place for in the first place then you would have wished everyone was driving 55 mph. We may get there in the future because the fuel will not last forever even at 70 mpg. Those higher speeds that you promote is increasing our fuel usage more than 20%. What I hate is that people drive over the limit just because they can not because they need to. It is bad enough to drive fast covering a high distance in a day but to use a lot more fuel just to get somewhere a minute or two quicker I think they should be shot or at least given a ticket.
You say that you are for high mileage vehicles but many even on this site go for the power rather than efficiency. Even the guy that spouts his high mpg high speed diesel only gets a little over 30 if he takes it easy.
I’ve got close to 30 years of records to back up the cost @ 70 mph in older IDI tech . In a TDI with or without gearing changes and not wasting fuel/oil on quick take offs my mpgs are easily achieved in any manual trans TDI . And I have the documentation to back my mpg numbers over my 2,200 mile trip .
Over the region in previous weeks , 1,200 miles I achieved ~56mpgUS with speeds in the 60-80 mph . In the west most two lane highways allow ~70 mph , posted @ 65-75 mph depending on the state .
My actual highway speed varied from high 70s to as high as low 90s mph on the highway over that 2,200 mile trip . 250 miles of the trip was in Utah in the mid to high 80s to low 90s mixed in in both directions .This included many trips around the south LA region on their high speed freeways @ 65-85 mph . I could care less if you believe my mpg numbers but they are documented facts . Your ignorance to what is possible isn’t my problem ………….
And I have no problem with someone on the site driving at these speeds and achieving high 20s to 30s mpgUS . I really don’t like the current over powered fuel wasting SUVs and pickups trucks but high gas prices will take care of them . And the cost of real world driving at speed will help to remove them from our roads .
If you really care about waste how about you use your energy to go after gas guzzling SUV & useless pickup drivers . When you have eradicated them then you can come after the high 20s to mod 30s mpg drivers . Short of that I really care less of what you think of my driving and the cost of it carbon & fuel consumed wise ………………….
And during the days of the 55 mph I drove across many states . Many miles were in the early days of the 55 . During that era I drove in 40 states and can vouch for the fact that no one ever drove that slow on our freeways , not even the police . Traffic slowed for about 6 weeks when the 55 went into effect and I did experience gas line then it was back to normal for the rest of that nightmare . I have 3,000,000+ miles of experience to back up my statement across 46 of the 50 states .
And sc3w you I have the job I have . Who are you to tell us in the west what we can do for a living ……………………………..Arogant a$$hole comes to mind . In the west you can’t get anywhere without at least 10-13 hours behind the wheel or a couple of hours in an airplane . Why don’t you do this drive a couple times a month because you have to then you might have a clue . Then your crap on how slower is better might be shown to you how out of touch with reality it really is . Keep your small minded ideas in your part of the US , they make no sense for the Americans that live in the west ……………..
You want less energy used , force the government to raise CAFE to 40 mpgUS today without the loophole for SUVs & over sized pickups that still exists in the coming increase .
From your posts I’m betting your weren’t even born yet , I was driving during that time .
I was and had to live through that nightmare ………………
I’ve got no problem with you driving slower but please stay out of the left lane if you drive in the west .
All of the statistics I have seen even in this article show that the cameras in Arizona work. The average speed is very close to the speed limit now. The accident rate is down significantly. With the average speed close to the speed limit there has to be very few tickets given out. Only the ones well above the 85 percentile could be getting tickets.
Have you ever even driven in the west ?????????????????????I’m betting not from your ignorant comments .
I was all across the west in the last few weeks from CA , Nevada , Nebraska , Wyoming , SD , Arizona , Utah & Colorado . The rural freeway speeds in all ranges in the low to mid 80s mph . The same it has been for the last 5 years . Saw plenty of HP officers in all states and 85-90 mph seems to be in effect the real limit . You can set the cruise on 82-85 in most places and forget about it with no regard to posted rural limit . In parts of CA , Nevada , Utah , Arizona & Colorado the enforced limit is closer to that 88-90 mph mark on many empty wide open , long & straight rural sections . In CA 80 is the enforced limit on urban freeways .
And out here in the wide open west lower speeds mean it takes longer to cross the nothingness and that costs lives . That is why they allow the higher speeds of today in the west . Faster is safer out here , everyone out here knows that .
These cameras are about money and nothing else………………….
I too agree you should start your own web site and we will all visit there to stamp out your clueless not based on reality idiotic rhetoric there , it’ll be fun :~). It would nice if they could block your access here ……………
Oh, come on, “Me.” This site wouldn’t be nearly as fun without Randy to kick around. He’s practically our court jester and can always be counted on for a bit of fun. Just don’t take him too seriously. And he’s really easy to debate. He never concedes a point, but no village idiot ever does. But that doesn’t stop people from laughing.
I actually have a new theory. Randy is a plant. By that I mean he’s been planted here by the NMA powers to stimulate discussion. I mean, really, if we all just agreed with each other there wouldn’t be nearly so many posts and replies. Eh?
Randy says, “You and others here spend dozens of hours here on the internet”
Judging by the rapidity of his posts, I’d say he’s on here more than all of the rest of us combined. Hence, my theory.
Of course, I like my other theory better. See our exchanges here and on the 55 mph speed limit thread for my theory that he actually lives in a backward yak-herding country with a fascist religious government.
Me says: “And out here in the wide open west lower speeds mean it takes longer to cross the nothingness and that costs lives . That is why they allow the higher speeds of today in the west . Faster is safer out here , everyone out here knows that.”
Preach it brother! I love to hear that beautiful truth! Amen!
“I actually have a new theory. Randy is a plant. By that I mean he’s been planted here by the NMA powers to stimulate discussion. I mean, really, if we all just agreed with each other there wouldn’t be nearly so many posts and replies. Eh?”
I’ve considered the possibility as well… and just ignore his posts unless I need to giggle.
Fahrenfreude your ideas are a joke. Only the slow people do not pay attention? What about all the people that pass me with cell phones up to their ear or the legally drunk driving fast? Wow you had a 900 mile trip! I drove that far at the speed limit in March. The speed limit was 65 mph and 75 mph. No speeding was needed. What is your problem if you were driiving in the left lane for a long period of time? You were illegal. If you want to drive in the left lane in somones blind spot for a significant period of time I can not help your driving other than recommend a driving school.
If you liked it so much in China I would say move there for good. Follow their laws since you can not follow ours.
You and others say you have the right to speed? Where is that written anywhere. I guess you have the right to drive drunk and the right to kill other people. Where do your rights stop? It goes back to I live in this country and do not get tickets. Maybe I know how to drive.
As you brought up that people make mistakes all the time. Why compound those mistakes by increasing speeds and increasing chances of accidents with some like you that feel they can drive over the limit whatever you feel like. It goes back to Randell saying it is fine to drive at least 10 mph over the limtit in a school zone. What is it for you 20 over the liimit in a sxhool zone?
As for the officer that says that increased speed limits made driving better. Who is to say that he is not a member of NMA? What about the staticstics that the accident rate was down significantly in Arizona after the cameras were installed? Where is the person saying there is more road rage in Arizona?
You said you had to drive behind a slower driver 5 to 6 minutes. How much time would you have saved in that amount of time by her letting you pass? You stated it perfectly that the road rage comes from people that believe they have the right to break the laws and if someone keeps them from breaking the law for a few minutes they get enraged. Let me tell you that it does not matter what speed limit was in place at the time you still could have run into the same problem because other drivers are not as good as you are. That is a reason why lower speed limits are in place. There are all kinds of drivers out there and many like you feel they can set their own speed. I have seen personally what can happen when faster drivers set their own speed. They kill others. People like you say it is fine to speed or driink and drive heavily because you have done it and did not geT in an accident. That may be true but it increases the chances greatly.
Oh, good! I was afraid, Randy, that when you didn’t reply on the 55 Speed Limit thread that we’d lost you. Glad to see you’re still around. You know that eventually we’re going to break you down and bring you over to the dark side, don’t you? ;)
“What about all the people that pass me with cell phones up to their ear or the legally drunk driving fast?”
Higher-functioning drivers are capable of multi-tasking whereas slower drivers tend not to be able to do this. Perhaps that’s one reason they drive slowly.
“What is your problem if you were driiving in the left lane for a long period of time? You were illegal.”
In what driving statute does it state that driving in the left lane for long periods of time is illegal? There are none as long as one pulls over for faster drivers. And, in point of fact, I always drive in the right lane except to pass. That’s how I avoid tickets because cops tend to target drivers in the left lane and it’s also easier for them.
“If you want to drive in the left lane in somones blind spot for a significant period of time I can not help your driving other than recommend a driving school.”
I’ll grant you that I was in her blind spot, but that doesn’t change the fact that not to do a head check before changing lanes is idiotic and a sign of distracted and incompetent driving but also that improper lane usage is also a crime. And come on Randy, even you have to grant me that running into another vehicle as that lady was about to do contributes more directly to accidents than simply speeding. In fact, when I was nearly struck I was traveling at exactly the same speed as the road cow! You can’t always have it both ways: you shouldn’t speed, you shouldn’t drive the same speed, etc., etc. Couldn’t we even say that in the case of this cow, to have passed her more quickly would have been safer? Of course!
“If you liked it so much in China I would say move there for good. Follow their laws since you can not follow ours.”
Well, I suppose I could, except I love this country too much, which is why I’m willing to fight to change unjust, arbitrary and ridiculous laws, just as our forefathers were.
“You and others say you have the right to speed? Where is that written anywhere?”
Where is it written that people have the right to break the law and not yield the left lane to faster drivers? You assume, Randy, that I’m always passing people who are driving the speed limit. In fact, often, as was the case on this last trip, the law-breaking cows were not even at PSL. Even you must confess that in these cases, I’m allowed to get in the left lane and pass them.
“It goes back to I live in this country and do not get tickets.”
Neither do I.
“Maybe I know how to drive.” Ooo, ooo! Me, too! ;)
“As for the officer that says that increased speed limits made driving better. Who is to say that he is not a member of NMA?”
Aaack!!! A conspiracy!
Seriously, Randy. Why would you even be a cop if you embraced the concepts on this site? That’s not even an argument. Try again or concede the point.
“What is it for you 20 over the liimit in a sxhool zone?”
So what kind of yaks do you herd? What’s the weather like in your country?
“What about the staticstics that the accident rate was down significantly in Arizona after the cameras were installed?”
Where can I find these statistics?
“You said you had to drive behind a slower driver 5 to 6 minutes. How much time would you have saved in that amount of time by her letting you pass?”
Over the course of a 900 mile trip? Are you kidding me? Have they even discovered math in your country? I mean, beyond counting the yaks?
If I drive 1000 miles at 50 mph that should take me, just considering cruising speed, not stops and starts, bathroom trips and lunch (yes, even evil men like me need food), about 20 hours. At 60 mph that’s 16.6666 (aaack, it’s the devil!) hours. At 70 mph that’s 14.3 hours. At 80 it’s 12.5.
Now, for my specific trip: if I’m driving in a 55 zone for 500 miles that should take me 9.1 hours. If I do ten over the limit that’s 7.7 hours.
Then, if I have another 400 miles in a 65 and I do 75 instead, it goes from 6.2 hours to 5.3. That’s a savings of 2.3 hours.
“You stated it perfectly that the road rage comes from people that believe they have the right to break the laws and if someone keeps them from breaking the law for a few minutes they get enraged.”
Where did I state this? In fact, a great deal of road rage comes from people whose passive aggression becomes active. I see it all the time: someone sitting in the left lane (often below PSL) gets passed on the right because they won’t move over (they are, of course, in the wrong and breaking the law) and then they get mad.
You know, I was thinking Randy, that you write like someone who has perhaps been personally affected by a drunk driver or a speeder. If that’s the case, I’m sincerely sorry for your loss. That doesn’t mean I’ll agree with you but we’re just talking right? There’s no reason for me to wish you, or anyone else anything but the best.
Cheers!
(Unless you’re driving) :)
Ok idiot Fahrenfreude, Where were you driving for 500 miles at 55? Was it all two lane back roads? Where could you drive the limit for a 1000 miles at 50 mph? We are dealing with the facts of the present or was it you that comes here bringing statistics of decades ago? Give us the facts of where you went and the speed zones and then you can complain.
Also what is this saying it is ok for you to do dumb things driving and also break laws and if someone else makes a mistake you complain big time. People miss seeing people al the time in their bliind spots. Only bad drivers spend any time at all in that area. You either speed up or slow down to get away from the other vehicle. Like I said, get some drivers training.
Fahrenfreude you go find your own source for accidents in Arizona. Here is what I found. It is easy to search for facts/
A 2007 study of speed cameras on the Arizona State Route 101 in Scottsdale found a 50% reduction in the total crash frequency, with injuries falling by 40%
Randy says, “Wow you had a 900 mile trip! I drove that far at the speed limit in March.”
And I’ll bet it took you all month! LOL! Oh, ow! My side. Keep it comin’, Randy, your posts make this site a lot more amusing.
Randy says, “Fahrenfreude you go find your own source for accidents in Arizona.”
Well, you know, Randy, I could take your approach and just say you’re lying. Or, that it’s a police conspiracy. Take your pick. Hey, you started using these tactics so I gather they must have some kind of bizzare validity to you.
Randy says, “over the limtit.” Freudian slip, eh? Is that what they call yak nipples in your country? How do you find time to go online what with all the milking? How do you even go online? Do you have a satellite link to your hut?
Randy says, “Where were you driving for 500 miles at 55?”
Oh, right. Why don’t I just give you a Mapquest link for directions to my house? I can see the sign in the yard now: Calling all wackadoos, Fahrenfreude lives here. And I wasn’t driving 55, of course. And neither were a lot of my other lawbreaking friends. Oh, sure, there were a few people doing 55, but I would say not more than 20-30%. Everybody else was at least 3-5 above PSL.
“Was it all two lane back roads?” Yeah, of course there was a lot on 2 lane, non-limited access highways. Sometimes they’re the shortest distance between two points. But this just shows the hypocrisy of your thinking: you can’t imagine using those ‘slow’ roads yourself. You haven’t the patience for it, nor the passing skills.
Speaking of 2 lanes, I hope your snoozy style of driving doesn’t extend to them as well. On these roads, one’s skills and alertness need to be at their highest levels. You’ve got people passing in your lane, wackadoos pulling out in front of you with their snowcats and fishing boats, deer jumping out from behind bushes and trees. You can’t just cruise and snooze and have a nice, stress-free drive.
“Where could you drive the limit for a 1000 miles at 50 mph?”
I was just illustrating the point that, contrary to your claims that only seconds are saved, that speeding can save minutes and hours. I used that example because I thought the math would be easier for you. Sorry I overestimated you.
Randy says, “Give us the facts of where you went and the speed zones and then you can complain.”
Well, I wasn’t really complaining, just illustrating a point. And in addition to not wanting to give any wackadoos the directions to my house, it’s irrelevant. The precise figures don’t add anything to the argument. I mean, whether I drove mostly in 55 zones or mosty in 75 zones doesn’t matter. For example, if I wanted to drive 400 miles in a 75 zone, that would take me 5.3 hours at PSL. At 87, that takes 4.6 hours. A savings of over 40 minutes.
Fahrenfreude says, “There’s no reason for me to wish you, or anyone else anything but the best.”
Randy says, “Ok idiot Fahrenfreude”
Oh, I’m wounded. I try to extend an olive branch and what do I get?
You guessed it! Entertainment! :)
Oh, and by the way,
Randy says, “Only bad drivers spend any time at all in that area.”
Well, I surely wouldn’t have been there had it not been for the cow breaking the law in the left lane. And, I was able to easily evade her. She couldn’t have hit me if she tried because as I said, fast drivers like me have superior reaction times. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that speeders are safer than other drivers, because they are used to things happening faster and have faster reaction times. This puts them in a position to avoid the problems created by road cows more effectively than people with slower reaction times. Why I recall one time when I was towing my boat, and amazingly, driving at PSL. This road cow pulled out in front of me on a 2 lane and I had to brake so hard the boat was practically jumping from side to side behind me. Now, because I’m more alert than the average driver, I predicted that he was going to do this and had already started braking before he pulled out. I saw the vacant, road cow, glazed over look in his eyes and knew he was going to do the wrong thing. I saved him a serious ticket because as we all know, pulling out in front of people when you don’t have the right of way is highly illegal. Yet another example of a “speeder” (though I wasn’t speeding at the time) saving somebody an expensive ticket through his superior driving skills.
Idiot Fahrenfreude. There is no excuse for driving for minutes near someones blind spot. Here that? No reason. It does not matter how anyone else is driving. If you can not pass someone you get back in the right lane and wait. You do not drive in someone’s blind area. I guess someone that does not know how to drive would and at the same time complain about everyone else not knowing how to drive. I have taken multiple driving classes because I used to do a lot of driving at work and you would have failed the classes.
Oh, Thank you, Randy! I do appreciate the entertainment your posts provide. I’m thinking about selling my TV since I can’t remember a show that made me laugh as much as your posts.
Randy says, “Here that?” Or is it, “There that?” Or is it, “Here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo?” Oh, wait, but do yaks actually moo? What kind of sound do they make? I’ll bet they smell bad.
Randy says, “It does not matter how anyone else is driving.”
Remember, I was the only one in that scenario not breaking the law. Let’s write this differently: Try–It is the law to stay in the right lane except to pass. It is the law to yield the left lane to faster vehicles. It is the law to change lanes properly and not to strike another vehicle. ****”It does not matter how anyone else is driving.”****
Randy says, “I guess someone that does not know how to drive would and at the same time complain about everyone else not knowing how to drive.”
Right. Which pretty much explains your time on this site, considering you seem to be ignorant of 99% of traffic laws with the exception of speeding. You are a literalist. Are you like, 6 or 7 years old, by any chance? It’s my understanding that this kind of thinking is common in that age group.
Ha! Up to your old tricks, Randy, I see.
Randall’s right. This country (I still think though, that Randy is writing from some yak-herding country with no economy and a repressive religious government) wouldn’t exist if people had just accepted the laws that the government handed down. And it won’t exist in the future if people just keep accepting the laws without questioning them. That would make us even worse than China because in China, people do protest and the government does change, albeit very slowly. In fact, in China (I’ve spent months there and speak the language) I feel even more free than in the U.S. because in addition to relative freedom on many issues, there isn’t the social bullying in the same way that there is in the U.S. and Randy is a case in point. The Chinese mind their own business and unless you’re organizing big meetings and challenges to the government they don’t bother you either. In fact, Americans attempt to restrict each other’s freedom and often, they try to do it through the government. That’s one reason to fight it. Our forefathers made a concerted attempt to protect everyone from a tyranny of the majority and unfortunately, the system is still a bit imperfect. It requires constant attention from the citizenry, hence the reason for this site to exist.
I think Randy, that you are a tool. I mean by that, that you are a tool of the establishment, the government, in short…the man. You would be the guy in the former USSR running around singing patriotic songs about Lenin saying how lucky we all are to live under socialism. There aren’t a lot of true communist countries left, but there’s always North Korea. You could go check it out and stop bother people at this board. Of course, things wouldn’t be nearly as fun without you. ;)
Oh, and Randy, I thought about our discussions on my recent 900 mile trip. On that trip, I encountered a few dangerous situations created by other drivers and not one of them was caused by speed.
Case in point: I and two other drivers were coming out of a construction zone. The blue car ended up in the left lane and the tan car in the right. They accelerated to about 90% of the limit and they both sat there, with me behind the blue car in the left lane. I really wanted to get moving but was gentlemanly and didn’t flash my lights (though there were on) and I didn’t tailgate. After a few minutes (like 5-6) the driver of the tan car must have forgot I was there and attempted to get into the left lane behind the blue car. This really suprised me because there was no other traffic in her lane. And, because I wasn’t tailgating the other car, she didn’t see me right next to her and started to pull over. When I honked it took her quite a while to respond and she kind of looked around, confused, as if she was saying to herself, “Where am I? What am I doing? What’s my name?” After the blue car finally accelerated and pulled into the right lane I passed her. She glared at me like I was Satan because I had honked. This only shows that she was also oblivious. She didn’t understand that I honked because of the other driver’s attempt to run me off the road. So, a dangerous situation created by road cows which I, as the alert driver, had to diffuse, saving them both from tickets and possible vehicular manslaughter charges. Am I a nice guy or what?
I guess that’s one of the big reasons we don’t agree with you Randy. We see situations like this all the time. People who drive slowly tend not to be alert. That might not be true of you but it is so true of the drivers many of us see on the road all the time. That’s why 4-lane laws and courtesy are what they are. Some drivers can drive slow and some can drive fast. If the slow ones stay on the right the system works very well. If not, these road cows cause dangerous situations through their breaking of this law. Did you know, Randy, that pulling over to the right for faster vehicles is a law in many states? Regardless of their speed, you are required to yield the left lane to faster vehicles. If you stay there in front of someone who wants to pass you you are breaking the law. Period. And if you think that person is speeding? Perhaps your speedo is not calibrated. Better to be on the safe and curteous side and pull over.
Oh, and one last little tidbit for you: I recall one city I lived in where there was a long street, east-west, and if you exceeded the speed limit, you could make all the lights and make about 12 miles in 20 minutes. If you went the speed limit, you’d hit all the lights, or most of them, and it would take you 30-40 minutes. That’s a 10-20 minute reward for speeding. If the city didn’t want us to take advantage of this, they should have set the light timing differently. Also, let’s say I’m doing 50 mph on some beltway; I’ll go 25 miles in half an hour right? Now, let’s say I’m doing 60; I should go 30 miles in half an hour, right? That puts me more than five minutes ahead of the slower driver. Not seconds, Randy. If you’re trying to make up time because of some other traffic jam somewhere (probably caused by people not abiding by the pull-over-for-faster-drivers LAW) that’s enough to make a difference.
Randy says: “You can set the cruise most of the time a take it easy. No stress.”
You can also have this utopian situation if slow drivers obey the law and stay in the right lane. I’ve see this happen and to be honest, it happens more often now that speed limits are higher. When the speed limit was arbitrarily and foolishly limited to 55, everyone was much more stressed, there were more accidents and traffic flow was horrible. I’ll admit this is my personal perception, but having logged a million miles in my driving life, it isn’t a small statistical sample.
Also, recall the article about 496 in Lansing where the state trooper who was an expert on these matters said that raising the speed limit had lowered road rage and accidents. How would you explain that Randy?
Randall if you think that this country was founded by law breakers so it is fine for you to break all of our laws you are wrong. It is not fine to break all of our laws. If you break our laws you will be prosecuted and if you do not like it you can go to some island and create your own country where anything goes.
What are you talking about? Our Fore fathers thumbed their noses at the English Government. They committed treason! And they refused to pay taxes. They wrote the constitution so you could do what you want and protect yourself from being prosecuted by an overbearing gov’t. Now of course when they founded the country there really wasn’t any laws to break yet. But they committed treason which is a very serious offense and for you to sit here and say that speeding is as bad as murder is ridiculous.
You can break laws all day and get away with it Randy. Like I said we have what we call liberty in this country. If you increase enforcement you decrease liberty. If you decrease enforcement you increase liberty. If you don’t want liberty go to china, like i said before.
It’s people like you worrying about what your next door neighbor is doing, instead of worrying about yourself and your own problems which is what is wrong with this country. People passing laws that are unenforceable such as texting while driving (which is good but how do you enforce that?) I could be dialing a phone number which is still legal to do in md, talk on the phone is still legal too. But texting is not but you can’t prove it unless the cop is standing right next to you as your driving.
Speeding is not the problem it’s bad drivers who don’t look , cut people off, swerve in between cars to try and get a couple inches ahead.
Frustration because someone gets over and prevents me from passing. Sure I’d like to pass people if i can but I’m not throwing a fit about. That causes accidents. Road rage over dumb shit causes accident. If you just stay in the same lane with minimal passing like I do there’s no problems. If the highway is pack like it almost always is here in MD theres no point in driving like a maniac, but everyone is doing 70-75 on 695 mid day. I mean shit in this state 29mph over the limit is only 2 points. So obviously its not that big of a deal and if it was our legislature would crack down on it.
Randy you can’t sit here and tell me you follow every law in your state and country to a T everyday.
Only dumb people are caught and arrested. Smart people plan ahead and know what to say to a cop or better yet what not to say. Being that I’ve never been arrested, you could call me a law abiding citizen, smart, someone who knows the laws, lucky, or dosne’t break serious enough laws for anyone to care.
Randall you are an idiot!!!!!!! Can I come to your neighborhood and target shoot with my guns at all of the houses? Your excuses are ignorant. Yes you can do whatever you like but my rights say you do not have the right to cause me harm. Speeding often does. Peope are killed. Even in the information that you found says that people get killed. You say that the liberty to break the law is above somone elses’ liberty to live.
Last time i checked our country was founded by law breakers. and the funniest thing about it is they even wrote the constitution to allow for people to break the law and get away with it. The reason being to keep the government from having too much control over it’s people and to prevent innocent people from being found guilty. That’s what liberty is. The ability to do what you want without the government telling you no. Freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
Randy if you want to be controlled every second by your government move to China.
We are a nation of law breakers Randy. Get used to it. Speeding is not a bad thing and just about everyone does it. When i’m on the freeway and everyone is doing 75 in a 55 the people who are doing 55 are the dangerous ones. They’re the ones that are going to get rear ended.
I want to know who my accuser is? I can’t question a camera or a radar gun attached to one. And how do i know the radar gun isn’t broken or that the camera clicked the wrong car.
Ok Randall if you are driving in Arizona now according to this article then you are the dangerous one driving 20 mph over the limit.
If you say it is ok to break the law then you would say it is ok to have someone come a kill your family or drink heavily and hit your car with your family in it or drive over the limit and lose control of their vehicle and kill a lot of people. Believe it or not excessive speeding causes deaths all the time. You do not care if you put others kids in danger though because you say it is fine to drive whatever speed you like in a school zone. You are ignortant of the facts.
The only reason that speeding is happening is because little is done about it. If a speed limit is set it should be followed within a few mph. If the limit is wrong then you get that changed but until then you follow the law. I guess you think it is ok to drink and drive like the lady that just killed what was it 7 or 9 kids and people? The only reason that it got national attention was because of the number of kids that got killed and her driving on the wrong side of the highway.othersise,, that happens all the time. Yoyu say you want to face your accuser if you are getting a speeding ticket. Well, if the only way you can get a ticket is to face your accuser then no radar or stopwatches or any timing device could ever be used because you say you want to stand up abainst a person. As you would say people can not extimate youe xact speed so you want to get away without any speeding violation there is.
Randy {Quote}
Yoyu say you want to face your accuser if you are getting a speeding ticket. Well, if the only way you can get a ticket is to face your accuser then no radar or stopwatches or any timing device could ever be used because you say you want to stand up abainst a person. As you would say people can not extimate youe xact speed so you want to get away without any speeding violation there is.{/Quote}
Randy,
Sometimes photo images can be deceiving. A human operating a speed measuring devices can answer questions surrounding a specific incident that a photo or other mechanical device cannot.
If there is mechanical error a licensed human operator could (in theory) correct the error or arrange for the equipment to be fixed.
IMO, speeding (alone) is not a problem. Speeding with people acting irresponsibly can cause problems. Discourteous drivers (ie Left lane bricks) can also cause problems.
Non human methods of speed enforcement (IMO) make the process of collect revenue more profitable for the government (and the equipment manufacturer). They do not immediately stop the “Problem”. A LEO could stop the law breaker in real time. The law breaker may have a reasonable reason for breaking the law that can be explained to the officer. The law breaker may not remember why he did something 3-8 weeks ago.
Driving slower speeds can save fuel and wear and tear at the cost of time. What is more valuable to the individual is up to them to decide.
Mithrandir you may be shocked but I disagree with you. You believe that humans can do a better job at determining your speed. I guess because I have worked around electonics most of my life that a properly designed electronic system is multiple times better than any human could be. You say you want to question the officer that is running the device. Believe it or not cameras and electronic devices never have recollection problem and can almost always give an exact recollection of what happend unless of course the memory device breaks and can give no data wether it is a video or whatever which is very rare. The policemen will never remember exactly what happened and can only go off any small amount of notes that were taken at the time.
You say that speeders are not the problem but it is the “Left lane bricks” that cause the problem. Have you ever driven on a highway where there is a speed crackdown? I have. It is very nice driving. You can set the cruise most of the time a take it easy. No stress. If you come up to a slow truck in front of you then you can easily switch lanes without someone coming up behind you 20 mph over the limit and getting mad at you for getting in their lane. You say you own the lane becaues you are a very fast driver. You do not own the lane. You can get mad at someone if they are in the left lane and driving under the limit but if they are doing the limit or a little more you should not be able to get mad at them if they are in the lane for a few hundred yards.
You are right in that slower speeds can save a lot of fuel and a lot more savings come from not having to hit the brakes and the accelerator like you say you drive. You get a lot of that when there is a vast range of speeds on the highway.
You say it is all about driving fast to save time. There is a law of diminishing returns on increased speeds. Since most limits are 65 mph or more on the highway except around major cities, increase speeds from those newer limits saves you very little time unless you are driving 100s of miles in a day. Even the 55 mph around major cities does not cost you very much time because the distance is usually less than 20 miles. Tell me how much time you save on an average day going over the limt? For most people it turns out to be seconds and at the most a few minutes. Should we allow someone to drive as fast as they like over the limit just to save a minute or two? I think not.
You aslo say it is all about revenue. Well if you are willing to risk a hundred or two for saving a minute or two a day then that is up to you. You must be an important person that your few minutes are worth hundreds of dollars and more risk of killing or injuring someone else.
{Randy=Quote}You say you own the lane becaues you are a very fast driver. You do not own the lane. You can get mad at someone if they are in the left lane and driving under the limit but if they are doing the limit or a little more you should not be able to get mad at them if they are in the lane for a few hundred yards.{/Quote}
I never stated that I owned the lane. I usually drive about 60-70 Hwy and stay in right most lane. (I have no problems with others driving faster than me in a safe and prudent manner) Before I switch lanes I check to see if it is safe to do so.
I do not get mad if people stay in the left lane, but it is discourteous for one to stay in left lane when (1) there are other travel lanes available to the right (2) if they are blocking the traffic behind them that wishes to travel at a faster speed.
{Randy=Quote}Tell me how much time you save on an average day going over the limt? {/Quote}
For about 50 mile commute (about 15 minute difference between 45mph and 60mph)
{Randy=Quote}You aslo say it is all about revenue. Well if you are willing to risk a hundred or two for saving a minute or two a day then that is up to you. You must be an important person that your few minutes are worth hundreds of dollars and more risk of killing or injuring someone else.{/Quote}
Depends on situation. Usually I do not travel above 70-75mph. However, there may be some times when it is necessary and worth it. For some people the time is more valuable than the extra fuel and wear/tear on vehicle.
If it was not about revenue, then IMO there would be few police “hiding on the side of the road”. LEO would be very visible, not use unmarked/minimally marked cars. LEO would drive on highway at PSL.
{Randy=Quote}Believe it or not cameras and electronic devices never have recollection problem and can almost always give an exact recollection of what happend . . . {/Quote}
Recollection is not the issue with me. The picture only provides a snapshot of what happens. It does not (A) immediately stop the behavior (B) give the operator an opportunity to explain to an officer what may/may not have occurred while it is still fresh in memory. (C) show why the behavior occurred. There may have been a good reason.
Craig spent a lot of time preparing an writing this article. Unfortunately I can tell you right now exactly how the politicians in Arizona will respond to it.
The article confirms a phenomenon that is widely known and accepted in all other countries with more developed speed camera programs. Fixed speed cameras can only ever be effective at slowing down traffic on the section of road that they actually cover. Once past the coverage area, traffic tends to return to the normal speed only to slow down for the next camera. In the UK this behaviour is known as “camera surfing.”
However, “camera surfing” has never been a successful argument for the removal of speed cameras, anywhere in the world. Any politician will tell you that it doesn’t mean you scrap the cameras (and lose the associated revenue.) It means you switch to a different kind of speed camera system that prevents the camera surfing from happening in the first place. So instead of measuring speeds at a fixed point, you can expect to see point-to-point speed cameras that measure your speed between two fixed locations a known distance apart. These are common all over Europe with some covering distances as great as 30 miles apart. If your average speed over that distance creeps higher than the PSL, you get a ticket in the mail. These average speed cameras are much more effective at catching higher number of speeders.
Unfortunately, raising the issue of camera surfing as an argument to scrap the cameras has always backfired in every country it’s been tried in. Highlighting the problem usually has the unintended consequences of speeding up (no pun intended!) the deployment of a much greater foe….point-to-point cameras. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Both ATS and Redflex have already been doing US testing of these systems, so they both have a ready made solution for the problem and I can guarantee that their marketing departments are already starting to brief AZ politicians on the talking points.
Al Smith
GPSdetector.com
Al, one thing you left out is that if eveyone gets comfortable with speeding up after the cameras, all you have to do is place a policeman a few hundred yards beyond a camera a couple of times a month or another option is to put up false camera positions where you can rotate the true cameras. You are right that if eveyone sees a camera coming up they know to slow down. From the article though it looks like what they have now is working so until that is not true nothing needs to be done.
Hello, Al.
I was just wondering if the averaged speed cameras would possibly mistake one car for another car, especially if the two cameras are up to 30 miles apart. What if you change lanes? Or a car gets in front of you? It doesnt seem like a very capable setup for capturing speeders.
Getting blood from a turnip! meaning getting more money from the people. (and tyranny)
I read this online and it states the facts pretty well George
“It’s not those cameras, but the new stationary cameras on the highways that everyone is complaining about. These cameras are permanent cameras located in the same spots on the highway every day. If people are driving down a stretch of highway they know speed cameras exist on, and STILL speed, well then yes, these tickets are a state tax … a state tax for the stupid. How else can you describe these speed offenders, other than stupid? The same cameras are there everyday, speed camera enforcement signs show up before entering the enforcement area, and people still speed. What can you say? “
Who says they are going to pay?
They are thumbing their nose at the criminal government.
and they people who regularly drive the route can nail their brakes, if not just lift off the throttle and cost down before the camera.
Ok George. If you say the government is criminal then you deserve the death penalty. From what you have said you are multiple times worse than the government ever could be.
Screw you Randy!
I do not commit any unlawful acts, unlike the government.
Sorry George but you do admit to breaking the law but you say you are above the law. You also promote this web site which encourages breaking the law.
Sometime, okay many times, what is legal isn’t lawful.
Owning slaves was legal, but is sure as hell wasn’t lawful.
‘breaking’ the law is the only way to change it-see jury nullification. Then you didn’t ‘break’ the law.
Have you seen the NMA tagline: research, educate, legislate. ?
This site promotes rights, common sense, understanding science, promotion of public good.
George owning slaves was lawful and legal in the past. It does not mean it was right but you could do it without breaking any laws and it was legal. Pomotion of public good is not supporting drinking and driving? You can get laws changed without breaking them. You are ignorant. Common sense is that you should not be driinking and driving. Common sense says that you should not increase speeds just because an idiot like you says so. Science says that increased speeds cause more accidents and severe ones. Public good is to get the people off the roads that do not follow the laws. If there are studies done that a small increase in speeds would cause very little and insignificant increase in accidents and death then fine raise the limit and then you can increase your speed. Not before.
You are not an adult if you need the state to be the arbiter of your morality. (you are a full grown child)
It is not lawful to own a slave because you violated their right to life.
I’m done.
George you are a complete idiot. It is bad to make someone a slave but it is fine promote drinking and driving and reckeless driving which increases the death rate. Where are their right to life for the ones that are killed? That was an idiotic statement coming from what you stand for.
Install low-key license plate covers (i.e. nearly invisible when viewed from the full-on direction where someone trails your vehicle) and few if anyone are going to spot you. Do research to make sure you get the ones that are actually effective. Some work well; others, not so much.
Also register your vehicle under an entity such as a corporation, a partnership, an LLC, or something else similar in nature, other than under your own name and residential address. It adds a crucial layer of privacy. I still got a chuckle last time a sergeant asked for my ID first but changed his mind because he saw my parked vehicle. He tried to obtain my name by running a plate check and it came back with only a company name:)
But I digress. If the camera company issues a ticket to the XYZ company, then they have to prove who was the actual driver when the camera snapped the picture. Wear your sunglasses: you need them during most of the daylight hours anyway; diffusive glares on overcast days are very hard on eyes, causing strain and fatigue to them and wrecking one’s ability to drive.
Unless and until there is a top-down change, i.e., legislation abolishing speed cameras, one has to utilize any and all available countermeasures and continue to seek and adopt tactical advantages. Every little bit helps improve your odds against the Big Brother.
So Jane Brownell if you are allowed almost 75 mph in a 65 mph limit it sounds like you go to a hell of a lot of work breaking the law. So if everyone else is driving close to 65 mph we still have to look a half a mile back in our rearview mirror for Jane to come blowing by with her covered illegal plates and sunglasses . From what I hear your corporation that you create will get the ticket anyway. Usually no proof of driver is neccessary. If you do not pay you will not be able to renew your hidden plates.
If one looks half a mile back at a closing vehicle carrying a speed difference of 10 mph (75-65), it will take 3 (yes, three) full minutes for the closing vehicle to cover that half-mile stretch. Here is the math:
time=distance/speed difference;
0.5 mile/(75-65)mph=0.05 hr=3 minutes.
By the way, three minutes are usually how long it takes to cover the distance between two successive exits on a typical interstate highway.
So if someone looks half a mile back and sees a vehicle take 3 minutes to close in and claims the closing vehicle is “blowing by”, then the person making that claim must have a normal perception of time, distance, and speed, and therefore is eminently qualified to drive. The rest of us are just hallucinating and should just get off the road and leave it to the non-hallucinator.
Jane Brownell you are showing your ignorance. If I was going the speed limit and you was going 75 mph then you would not get a ticket. Why bother with creating a corporation and hiding your license plate and wearing sun glasses? According to what I read you would not get a ticket until 76 mph so you figure out which one of us makes more sense. True you would probably want to drive a couple of mph under 75 just so you would not accidently go over the limit but an idiot would go to all the work you recommended for a couple of mph faster. So if you say you do not really want to be illegal why bother with it all?
How long is it going to be to take this article out of NMA when the facts show everything that NMA is trying to correct. NMA is for more non compliance of laws and for more injuries and deaths. How could an article show such positive things about enforcement on this site?
Craig you say that speed cameras do not work? Read these stats:
the Arizona Department of Safety (DPS) stating the cameras save three lives a month. Other data from the DPS shows the cameras have lowered speeds by 10 mph, resulted in side-swipe crashes falling by 58 percent, single-vehicle crashes falling by 71 percent, and total injuries decreasing by 40 percent.
I also read there is a 10 mph allowance so you do not even get a ticket until you are 11 mph over the limit. How could they do such a thing of giving such a high allowance when all the idiots on this site say the police give tickets for 2 mph over the limit.
I D I O T article with a capital I. Cameras do not work you say? What an idiot. Do you believe they would put up cameras where speeds before they put them up were within a couple of miles per hour of the 65 mph speed limit? Idiot. You say the speeds after they put them up you clocked at very close to the limit before and after the camera position. Idiot. That means they must work tremendously if everyone is basically driving the speed limit now. Idiot idiot idiot. You must not have a brain in your head with those statistics saying that cameras do not work.
Craig Peterson you do not have a brain in your body.
Randy, if there were a way to suggest removal of your posts, I would most certainly request removal of your posts.
Your ability to be obnoxious and uncivilized is obvious. You have a right to disagree, and you have a right to believe whatever you like about speed and speed limits and enforcement.
You DO NOT have a right to be insulting of other participants on our forum. You owe Jane a vary large apology.
Ok bruce. Do not I have a right to insult someone that promotes breaking our laws? If I were to aid others rob a bank or in killing someone I would be put in jail for a long time. If someone aids others to disobey our road laws then you say that is fine even though many innocent people get killed or injured.
As for this article telling lies about the affects of the cameras how can this site or others promote lies?
Did you write the law? So it really isn’t ‘yours’ or ‘ours’.
Get your own website, because you do not add positive criticism here.
George it is my law, well maybe not the Arizona law. The people that represent me and others write our laws. If you break a law you break it against the people of our state or county or country. As for positive criticism how can that be when most of the statements are made up or lies. How can you make any positive comments about that?
George I forgot to ask you one thing? Do you onestly believe that the cameras in this article make no difference in the traffic flow like it is stated? Do you really believe it is all about money? I do not drive in Arizona but it sound like it is about slowing down the drivers and it sounds to me like it worked there. No one gets tickets either unless they drive like you do.