Short Red-Light Camera Grace Period Leads To Ticket Refunds
Last week, Daniel Rubin of the Philadelphia Inquirer publicized the story of a local driver who was unjustly ticketed:
Mike Kochkodin didn’t think his car blew the traffic signal on Roosevelt Boulevard. But a few days after the white light flashed, a $100 ticket arrived by mail at his Central Pennsylvania home.
[...]
When the notice from the Philadelphia Parking Authority came, it gave instructions on how to view the three photos taken of the car: as it approached the intersection, midway through, then afterward as the rear license plate was visible.
The lawyer son, who’d gone to Penn and is also called Mike, noticed some small numbers displayed atop the photographs. He wasn’t sure what they meant, so he read some of the fine print on the red-light program’s Web site.
It described how when lights turn red at 10 intersections on the boulevard, sensors in the pavement trigger overhead cameras. But drivers are given a grace period. The cameras are supposed to wait one-third of a second before snapping.
Which made the younger Kochkodin wonder what the “0.2″ meant in the first photo. He drove to the camera program’s office on Grant Avenue in the Northeast, and there he learned that the number meant the camera had snapped at 0.2 seconds, instead of at 0.33 seconds.
He scheduled a hearing. That took place Sept. 10 and didn’t last long. Case dismissed.
The elder Mike Kochkodin – “I never trusted these cameras from day one,” he says — asked the hearing officer what would happen to others who got caught by a too-quick camera. The officer, Kochkodin said, said he’d toss any others he saw.
Which leads to the question: Just how many people got snapped too soon?
As TheNewspaper.com reports, at least 4390 people did:
A total of 4390 red light camera tickets, worth $439,000, will be refunded in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania after a ticket challenge revealed that they were improperly issued. The Philadelphia Inquirer newspaper uncovered the error while investigating the case of Mike Kochkodin, 59, who received a ticket on March 17 for allegedly entering an intersection two-tenths of a second after the light turned red. Last month, a Philadelphia Parking Authority (PPA) adjudicator summarily dismissed Kochkodin’s case, noting that the city had promised not to take photos until a third of a second had elapsed. After an article appeared on Thursday, PPA decided to refund the tickets.
“We did not know the magnitude of the problem, nor did the contractor report it,” PPA Executive Director Vince Fenerty told the Inquirer. “Should we have looked further? Most definitely. We didn’t.”
If you get a red-light camera ticket, make sure the city is following its own rules relating to the length of the grace period.
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Wow!!! Randy I agree with Joe and say that most people probably might just be able to agree with what you just said. Wow!!! For once we can see eye to eye. Randy you say “I think there should be a yellow line set back from the light to show the line of no return, or you should stop at the light if you are behind the line when the light turns yellow” Now I don’t know if that is your idea or not but I say thats a pretty good idea in which I have never even thought of. That idea should be implemented at intersections. The only problems might be like you said the money expense and that the yellow lines need to be adjusted with the speed limit because if the speed limit changes the yellow line needs to be repainted to match the speed limit.
Randy that’s the very first thing I’ve heard you say that makes sense. Formerly, I’ve mentioned that very idea to my co-workers several times and they also thought it was a good idea. I came up with the idea when I started using the signs that warn a driver of an impending four way stop (we have many of those around here). As I pass that sign I start to brake and using that as my reference allows me to make a very comfortable stop. ConGrads Randy, I agree. I was reading somewhere, maybe Australia, they used a fourth light to count down to a yellow. The yellow line though would be just about as effective and cost almost nothing to implement. Frankly I don’t know why that idea hasn’t already been implemented.
Ok Jeff there should be a reasonable yellow light time like I said and a 2 second grace period during the red light like you said. That makes sense but however we cannot have drivers always running the red light because what about the drivers making a left turn in the intersection who has to clear that intersection on red. Yes I guess in a way drivers have to kinda look out for each other but red light running should be avoided if at all possible because during that 2 second red light time it sometimes can be very gray. Do you see what I mean. I am not saying reasonable drivers should be fine with tickets but rather the ones who runs the FULL ON RED LIGHT which is anywhere after 2-3 seconds when the light turns red and puts the other drivers who has the right away in that intersection at risk. Sorry I know that I did not give enough detailed information on my last comment.
Jeff I know of no traffic lights that are red in both directions for 2 seconds but they may be in your state. The .3 seconds is to give you enough time to clear the intersection after the light is red. You actually should be able to clear most intersections in less than that time if you are going the speed limit. For the most part you should be through the intersection before the light turns red anyway. I think there should be a yellow line set back from the light to show the line of no return, or you should stop at the light if you are behind the line when the light turns yellow. The only thing that I can think why this is not done is expense of keeping the lines painted.
Todd…you just proved why ticket cameras are a waste with this comment: “The motorists who is unreasonably far from the intersection and still enters the intersection on the red light should get a big ticket since they put the other motorists at risk”. 0.3 seconds is barely after the light changed. Usually, there’s 2 full seconds of red all the way around to clear the intersection! Using your argument, the grace period should be that 2 second timespan, not 0.3 seconds!
Red light cameras are good for safety if they are used appropriately. In order for red light cameras to be appropriately used 3 things need to be adjusted correctly. That would be speed limits which must be reasonable and prudent, and traffic lights which need to be adjusted correctly. The 3rd most important one is the yellow light time. It needs to be long enough so that the motorists in the intersection and for the ones just about to enter the intersection has a reasonable amount of time to safely pass through the intersection without getting an unfair ticket. The motorists who is unreasonably far from the intersection and still enters the intersection on the red light should get a big ticket since they put the other motorists at risk. This method would allow the police to let the reasonalbe motorists go while they focus on the serious motorists who violated the laws and put others at risk. Other than that red light cameras also can backfire when it comes to safety. The NMA gives a good example of this on http://www.youtube.com When you go to that site type in Mike Stollenwerk Discusses Red Light Cameras in the search bar and you should find that video clip.