No More Fines: A Traffic Safety Revolution
November 9th, 2007 Posted in James Baxter, Speed Limits, Traffic Tickets
By NMA President, James Baxter
For over thirty years I have heard every excuse and permutation conceivable to justify more and larger fines for traffic law violations. The one thing they all have in common is that there is no evidence that they reduce accidents.
The founders of our country were clearly aware of the corrupting and corrosive potential that derives from allowing the “enforcers” to profit from enforcement.
They knew better than to allow enforcement agencies, or the governments that employ them, to profit from law enforcement activities. That’s why many state constitutions mandate that fines and financial penalties be diverted to non-enforcement purposes such as education or libraries.
Unfortunately, less gifted legislative bodies, in the intervening years, have created legal fabrications that allow the circumvention of these needed restraints.
I propose we strike this beast at its heart; we eliminate financial penalties for traffic law violations.
No money means no enforcement for profit. The remaining enforcement activity would be concentrated on truly dangerous drivers. Wouldn’t that be novel!
There is no serious evidence that traffic fines really have a positive effect on highway safety. That’s not the same as saying traffic law enforcement doesn’t, or can’t, have a positive effect on highway safety.
I’m saying traffic fines are ineffectual. After almost thirty years of listening to ticket recipients I can attest to the constancy of one refrain:
“I don’t mind paying the fine, but I don’t want the points on my driving record.”
Many times followed by:
“I don’t want my insurance rates jacked up for the next three years.”
Clearly, it’s the points and the implied potential for loss of license and increased insurance rates that are the real deterrents.
The government types aren’t so slow as to miss this point, nor to fail to capitalize on the leverage it offers.
Any prosecutor with more than a week’s experience knows that an offer of “no points” converts a determined “not guilty” to a compliant “no contest.”
I propose that the current corrupt fine system be replaced by a non-negotiable point system.
- The points would be assessed much like they are today, based on the seriousness of the violation.
- The violations could be contested in court, just like they are today.
- If the number of points exceeds a set number over a set time span the operator’s license would be suspended for a specified period of time.
- Escalating non-financial penalties, including jail time, could be applied to those driving on a suspended license.
I can already hear the road warriors out there bemoaning the loss of the “easy out,” just pay the fine, forget the points, and be on your way. However, that’s the system that has gotten us where we are today; wholesale government extortion of motorists.
This change will not take place in a vacuum, and the ramifications will reach far beyond the obvious:
- Small villages with populations of 200 people will not be fielding 20 man police department to patrol the half-mile of Interstate that passes through the village boundaries.
- County Sheriffs’ departments and city police departments will redirect the man hours spent operating speed traps to dealing with real crimes and providing emergency services.
- High profile enforcement binges will become rare events.
- There will be far fewer people driving on suspended licenses which will result in more insured drivers (no license, no insurance coverage).
- Significantly reduced case loads in traffic courts, perhaps resulting in the return of due process for persons charged with a traffic violation.
- And, the allure of ticket cameras will also fade into oblivion.
Why all these positive changes?
Taking the money out of the system will vastly reduce the number of tickets issued and change the priorities for law enforcement agencies. There will be no financial incentive to ensnare normal citizens with arbitrary traffic law enforcement.
Replacing traffic fines with a non-monetary penalty system could dramatically improve the driving experience in the US. No more revenue and profit-driven enforcement. And, yet there would be meaningful deterrents to dangerous and unsafe drivers that would equally affect the poor, the wealthy, and everybody in between.
Let me know what you think about this “revolution!”
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- 8 Questions About Traffic Tickets That Politicians Never Answer
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Hey!…Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts..what a nice Friday
good idea. do not bother drivers unless they are grossly unsafe.
Will lower taxes, because speed traps pay their speed cops out of tax money, not fines.
I just paid my dues to jion NMA
For profit law enforcement whether it be motorists or anything else, is inheriently dangerous. Look at RICO. It was founded to go after the mob. Now we have people losing there cars for playing their music too loud.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1955.asp
Only on the accusation of a neighbor!
Traffic laws are easy to enforce, and very lucrative for local governments. It would be pretty hard to convince them to give up the easy revenue, but it’s a great idea.
As to the concept that enforcement of traffic laws increases safety, I would like to know why police stopping someone on the shoulder of the road (or in the medians of divided highways), partially or completely blocking the traffic lane (as I have seen on more than one occasion) is not more of a safety hazard. Now, we have laws requiring a motorist to move over into the other lane when approaching a police “stop”. Just tell tell the criminal to proceed to the next available turnoff and get out of the way!
I agree with everything but the jail time. Unless the person was involved in an accident at the time thee is no reason to put someone in jail for so-called license violations.
If the traffic law enforcement boondoggle was all about money, why does a driver’s license cost only $20 for a 5 year license? It cost way more than $20 to process the document. Something to think about.
Why not make community service an option instead of cash..
Pay the fine or do community service..
(It will never happen because the municipalities will never relinquish the cash)
It isn’t just the municipalities but the police officers themselves. Their unions and associations are a very powerful lobby. People used to accuse officers of personally profiting from the tickets they write and they were usually wrong but now it is rapidly becoming the rule rather than the exception.
There is a growng trend in police union contracts toward something called selective enforcement. This means that officers can come in at overtime rates often at their own convenience and selectively enforce certain statutes which almost always means traffic enforcement. Come in write 8 or 9 tickets in an hour and get 4 hours of overtime. Write enough so that you must be assigned additional court time at time and a half pay rates and you make even more off your tickets.
One small Michigan city that has SE has about a dozen traps listed on your site. In some states forfiture laws result in officers getting a cut of the confiscated property. Your site should look into this and do more to educate readers(voters?) about these practices.
AN IDEA LONG OVERDUE. THERE SHOULD NEVER BE A NEXUS BETWEEN MONEY AND JUSTICE IN AMERICA. UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE MANY AND THEY ARE PROLIFERATING. WHENEVER AND WHEREVER THESE NEXUS’ EXISTS THERE WILL BE A NATURAL CAPITALSTIC MOMENTUM IN THE DIRECTION OF THAT MONEY. IT SHOULD BE ELIMINATED. LET’S HOPE YOUR IDEA HAS LEGS.
I was unaware of the practice Mike is mentioning (thinks for the info.) but I’m not surprised. Your right, this practice needs to see the light of day by the public. There’s no doubt that it contributes to the over all problem of abusive and excessive traffic control. I’m sure there are a lot of these secrets floating around PD’s and officers sure aren’t going to tell on themselves. Again it all boils down to that almighty dollar. We’ve allowed revenue to become an integral part of traffic enforcement.
Your also correct when you mention their unions. Any time something comes up in any legislative body that affects them you can bet their lobbing efforts will be in full force. Every legislator wants to co-operate with law enforcement. You’ll find few independent minded legislators. Same way with organizations such as the Municipal League that lobbies for the municipalities the cops work for. Often the two parties work together because any legislation that affects one can also impact the other. Try and get a speed trap law introduced or strengthened or a anti-traffic citation quota bill introduced in a state legislature and you’ll see them pour out of the wood work.
Every officer is a dues paying member of some organization that lobbies for them and there are several of them of which the FOP probably is the prevalent one. It’s one of the prime reasons why legislative reform in traffic laws and enforcement practices are often stalled or killed or overturned by a activist judge.
The driving public could well take a page out of these groups’ playbook. They have learned to play politics and perfected it to a fine art. Year after year they go back to state legislatures and generate or support laws in favor of their business and work to defeat laws that they feel interfere with their on going dirty practices. It’s one big reason why drivers now can be stopped and fleeced simply at will because there are so many laws and court decisions by activist judges that have given police a virtual monopoly over a driver.
As a driver you might as well throw up you hands (easy) and say to the officer “do what you want because I have no rights under the law anymore, I’m at your mercy”. Of course he already knows that. Every day, in every state, in every jurisdiction – they demonstrate it. It’s sad. One could easily write a book about it. I’m surprised someone hasn’t.
And to make matters worse most drivers don’t have the slightest idea about their legal standing during a traffic stop (what little is left). Cops take advantage of this situation. An officer can threaten and intimidate all kinds of nasty things to a driver and the driver has to believe the officer. It’s sad. It’s one reason why cops get away with so much abusive behavior without fear of reprisal.
On the contrary, how many drivers belong to some organization such as the NMA that can help lobby for them? For about a half a tank of gas now-a-days you can pay annual dues to the NMA. But it’s like pulling teeth to get drivers to understand this. I know, I’ve tried it on my co-workers numerous times. Hell, I can’t even get NMA members in my own state of OK to organize let alone the driving public in general.
It should therefore be of no surprise that the driving pubic is in the situation they/we are. It was predictable. The law enforcement community and municipalities know this and just laugh at us because they know drivers are incapable or unwilling to protect ourselves.
Basically we are sheep waiting for the big bad cop to pick one of us out of the herd. When the flashing lights go on in a herd of drivers we wonder who’s gonna be the next victim and then we wipe our foreheads of sweat when we find out it’s not us. We say to ourselves – now’s the time for the get-away while the wolves are busy feeding on another victim. I guess it’s human nature to feel that way. And it’s probably part of our selfish nature to NOT CARE about our fellow drivers. I wish I could paint a brighter picture but I’m old enough to have watched this process go on for a long time and unfortunately I see no signs of it changing. It don’t hurt to try though.
Fritz, there is a law in Michigan banning ticket quotas that was passed about 5 or 6 years ago with the support of most police unions and organizations. There is no obvious advantage to the individual officer to outright quotas. The police chiefs and municipal governments have a number of ways of circumventing the law.
The selective enforcement provisions forestall the criticism of the unions by making it profitable for the officers as well. Theres another common way around it. Almost every police agency does monthly evaluations of their officers much like a fitness or service rating in the military. These can weigh heavily where promotion is concerned. In some non union departments they can even determine who gets laid off and who doesn’t. A chief can make it clear to his officers that when your ticket production drops so does your service rating. Despite the law the practice of quotas goes on with impunity.
Last year one Southeast Michigan police chief earned considerable publicity when he issued an order that his officers were to write at least one ticket every 30 minutes during their shifts. This brought out considerable opposition from the police unions that have had nothing to say about SE. It has happened in many district courts in Michigan that a judge or referee will look out over a courtroom full of defendants awaiting a hearing and offer all the defendants whose tickets are marked with an SE the chance to pay a reduced fine and have their ticket taken under advisement(meaning if they don’t get another ticket for six months it will be dismissed).
I’ve been saying this for years. Take the financial incentive out of the equation and there would be a drastic difference in law enforcement objectives.
The real question is, how do we make this happen?
I don’t see it ever happening without a true revolt – the people simply refusing to pay the fines. Of the tens of thousands of motorists who go to courthouses nationwide everyday, it surely would only take a day or two of everyone refusing to pay their fines for this to be picked up by the media and catch the eye of legislators and governors who would have no choice but to pardon the people from their fines.
It is okay to dream, isn’t it?
If anyone thinks this system will change as it currently is, you are sadly mistaken. Only until the system becomes SO OPPRESSIVE and SO FINANCIALLY corrupt will the people rise up and do anything about it. So long as the fines are just under the “pain threshold” and it is sold under the auspices of “public safety”, the beatings will continue.
So rather than fight the system, which only keeps leveling the system out so that it never wakes up the driving public, I suggest the opposite route. Call your state legislators and ask them to RAISE the fines!!! Ask them why they are not “tough on speeding” like Virginia is. Ask for $5000 speed fines. After all, we can’t put a price on safety, right?
Once people start receiving $5000 speeding tickets, they will take action. It will get media attention. It will be seen for the corrupt money machine that it is. People will rise up and say NO MORE!!!
Great article and idea. Separating the money from ’safety’ would do wonders for drivers and society. I agree that it won’t happen b/c municipalities won’t relinquish the money. Good job and keep it up…let’s keep this topic high up on the radar and perhaps momentum will take it somewhere.
You guys are rediculous listen to what your saying. If you dont speed you wont get a ticket its that simple. Why do you think people hate getting tickets? b/c they have to pay. So if you get enough and pay enough you will stop speeding. If you took away fines then everyone would speed cuz who cares it doesnt really hurt you does it?
Officer Josh writes:
“You guys are rediculous[sic] l[sic]isten to what your [sic] saying. If you dont[sic]speed you wont [sic] get a ticket[sic] its[sic] that simple. Why do you think people hate getting tickets? b/c[sic] they have to pay. So[sic] if you get enough and pay enough you will stop speeding. If you took away fines then everyone would speed cuz[sic] who cares[sic] it doesn’t[sic] really hurt you[sic] does it?”
[sic][sic][sic]. Sick. Sick. Sick.
OJ, with all due respect, you don’t have a clue what you’re writing about.
It is not true at all that if a given driver is not speeding that he won’t be stopped and receive a ticket.
Would you continue to pursue your profession if you never got paid for it? Would your agency continue its all-out assault on speeders if ALL the fines went to another entity?
Drivers hate tickets because they represent the fundamental randomness of traffic enforcement for profit: what is ignored one day is cited the next. Arbitrary enforcement — especially for perfectly reasonable behavior — undermines respect for all laws and those who enforce them. And no solid case can be made that traffic enforcement is anything other than arbitrary. There is no evidence that changes in the level of enforcement or changes in the posted limits have any effect on the three key safety measures: the fatality rate, the injury rate and the crash rate, all per 100,000,000 vehicle-miles-traveled (VMT). In simpler terms, enforcement does not work, yet agencies in their obsessive protection of their institutions continue to do the same disproven tactics in hopes that the outcome will be different.
It is true that if you dont brake a traffic law you dont have to worry about it, all i see here is a bunch of people that get speeding tickets and like to complain. This will most likely never change. So what if the state gets the money to put towards other spending. If you did away with fines then what would be a consequence for breaking the law? So there should be no laws? All of these blogs state that there should be no fines but no one has a solution.
As most of you think we get paid to write tickets it is not true. That is infact illegal. So i dont get paid for writing tickets. And i love my job but to ask if i would still do it if i never got paid for it is rediculous. You wouldnt either so i dont think you know what your talking about. Maybe you should take a day and go on a ride along with a police officer and see what we really do instead of complaining about traffic tickets which is a small part of our duties. If you went on a ride along you would have a new respect for us.
Officer Josh you need to take a remedial reading comprehension course. Your statement that you don’t get paid for writing tickets is anecdotal. Redford Township Michigan police were recently embarrassed into rescinding their policy of paying your colleagues one hour of overtime for every two tickets written by protesters at their station. Southfield Michigan police are under orders to write one ticket every 30 minutes during their shifts. Similar protests are now planned for Dearborn Heights Michigan,Livonia and other cities that have similar selective enforcement programs. You are correct that quotas are illegal(at least in this state) and it’s clear that these police could care less about the law. Read about your 2 colleagues in oregon who have used “probable suspicion” to arrest thirty five innocent motorists for drunk driving who were all released because they had nothing to drink. Now they are all stuck with arrest records that the state refuses to erase.One Detroit television station did an investigation of traffic enforcement in Ohio and identified several communities that derive more revenue from selectively targeting NON RESIDENT motorists than they do from property taxes. Are 99% of the speeders in your town NON RESIDENTS? Are you one of those hundreds of thousands of officers with the little police sticker in your back window so you won’t get a ticket when you get stopped? If I did ride with you would you be on selective enforcement overtime not anserwing radio runs but just writing tickets? If your community installed traffic cameras would tickets to the vehicles of your fellow officers, judges,prosecutors and other government officials conveniently disappear like they have in Los Angeles and other cities? Does your state tack a sur charge on every ticket for a “police training fund” like mine does and then use the money to do things like send small town police chiefs to anti terrorism training seminars in places like Honolulu? Do officers in your state boast in newspaper articles of writing 3000 tickets in a single month and then like you try to claim that it isn’t the major part of their job. You may be a fair person but if you and your colleagues continue to allow yourselves to be reduced to meter maids that can write moving violations then it’s inevitable that the public will eventually question wether you’re worth the expense.
Officer Josh writes:
“It is true that if you dont brake a traffic law you dont have to worry about it. . .”
That is not true at all. Google The Innocence Project and tell us exactly why those 200+ guys wrongly convicted of capital crimes should not worry. If cops are willing, even eager, to put innocent people in prison for murder, how far do they stretch the truth vis-Ã -vis traffic violations? Think it doesn’t happen in traffic stops? Try New Rome, OH and Roland, OK and then tell us they’re lily white.
“all i see here is a bunch of people that get speeding tickets and like to complain.”
As well they should. Traffic enforcement is far too random to consider worthy of respect. Why should rational people performing reasonable acts be subject to the arbitrary whim of the law or the law enforcer? Do you not understand that the disrespect that the police suffer arises directly and primarily from ordinary citizens” encounters with silly enforcement of even sillier traffic laws? Do you not understand that the virtually exclusive contact of the ordinary citizen with the police is an arbitrary traffic stop?
“This will most likely never change. So what if the state gets the money to put towards other spending.”
Wrong question. The real question is why should the state get any money at all? Neither the state nor any citizens suffered damage from these alleged crimes. And conversely, if a jurisdiction got no monetary benefit from traffic enforcement, how long would they pursue it? In the case of all the chickensh!t little towns who run speedtraps, they would evaporate like fog in the desert.
“If you did away with fines then what would be a consequence for breaking the law?”
What are the consequences of having a stupid law in the first place? Do you realize that speed enforcement is a $100 billion a year industry? The problem is not with drivers’ behavior but with the law. Fix the law and the problem goes away.
“So there should be no laws? All of these blogs state that there should be no fines but no one has a solution.”
Why do we need a solution to a non-problem? In fact, we do not need speed limits at all. Speed limits are not now and never have been part of the Universal Rule of Right of Way, the body of organizing traffic laws that determine who goes where and when, a legal solution to an organization problem. They add nothing to that body but they do cost us *trillions* (yes, with a T) in lost productivity.
“As most of you think we get paid to write tickets it is not true. That is infact illegal. So i dont get paid for writing tickets.”
So what if it is overtly illegal when it is covertly accepted and encouraged? However, as I have said before, the problem is not with quotas but with the mistaken assumption that enforcement in general and speed limits in particular actually have an effect on public safety, their ostensible purpose.
If you don’t get paid for writing tickets, let’s see how long you keep your job if you don’t write tickets, that is, if your output is zero. I would bet that you would be the subject of “corrective disciplinary action” within a few weeks.
“If you went on a ride along you would have a new respect for us.”
Been there, done that. And no, I wouldn’t.
Point of clarification: I support professional status and wages for LEOs, including advanced training and merit pay based on improvements in certain population statistics. The other side of that coin is that all enforcement agencies are subject to citizen review boards and control and any LEO who knows of malfeasance by any other LEO and fails to disclose it, is guilty of a felony. LEOs are to be held strictly accountable to civilians.
It’s time to put the citizen thumb on the out-of-control police.
James says
“Wrong question. The real question is why should the state get any money at all? Neither the state nor any citizens suffered damage from these alleged crimes”
The citizens dont suffer damages, thats the whole point of the tickets to prevent damages to you and the state. The state? you may ask. How about the millions of dollars the state spends on fixing guardrails and walls that idiots going to fast run into.
So you dont think there should be speed limits? So you think its ok for a person to go down your street at 50 to 60 MPH while your kids are playing near or in the street or others kids? I sure dont.
So you dont have respect for us since you “have been there and done that”. Sorry buddy 1 ride along doesnt qualify you for that. Well next time you call us when someone is breaking into your house or assults you or whatever the crime may be ill make sure and take my time when i respond to your house. People dont have respect for police until you need us, were not a luxury were a necessity.
Your right though we are encouraged to right tickets but since i police in the #2 rated murder capitol of the nation tickets arent really my deal. I leave that to the transportation police or the state police. You take all these facts about other cities and i dont see how that pertains to mine. Every state has different police, we are all ran differently. But we do stick together because of the mutual lack of respect from the community. I know what your gonna say “the police dont deserve to be respected b/c they dont respect us” lalala. Well how about when you get a call about an assult and then you show up and they yell at you for showing up. How about the 8 hrs of disrespect we get a day you would be a little jaded too. Its hard to seperate the work and normal life but you have to and if it gets to the point where you cant you should quit or retire in my opinion. My dad for instance was a police. Its like a fraternaty a brotherhood. I dont expect you to understand. But this keeps me occupied when its slow for me, lol.
If the citizens ran the police there would be no order, who likes to be controlled?
Officer Josh says:
“If the citizens ran the police there would be no order, who likes to be controlled?”
Statements like that really make people think that officers of the law are out of control.
Officers are citizens specially charged and authorized to enforce the rule of law created by the citizenry through a representative body. You are a citizen with special privileges and authority for the purpose of the protection and service of a community. You are supposed to work for the people.
The lack of respect from the community can stem from statements such as yours. It insinuates the idea that you and your brotherhood are a class unto themselves. It says you feel that deserve a certain amount of respect simply because of your profession and not the quality of your work. The protection of those officers whose work is poor or even in violation of principles and law further degrades what respect a community may have for it’s police force. A few bad apples can ruin the barrel. Even if you’re one of the good apples, you’ll still get thrown in the garbage with the rest.
In my humble opinion, Law Enforcement Officers are asked to do way too much and not paid quite enough. I also believe that they should be more specialized to handle certain situations. I believe that they have way too much military influence, turning some areas into virtual police states where a pseudo-martial law reigns. Believe me, it is like that in some areas.
I know quite a few officers and troopers and they can be good people yet the system just isn’t right. We need to have the guts to take a look at whats wrong and try something new. Let’s face it. Fines have not solved this “problem”, so why continue it? I believe that this post was to promote the idea of eliminating fines, not consequences, for traffic violations.
Marice,
I didnt mean the quote the way you took it. What i was trying to say is that without the police there would be no order. But you are right a few bad apples ruine our rep. I try to be as nice as possible to people but in my area its pretty hard and it sucks to have to put on this attitude that i really dont have to be effective at my job. Most people that meet me cant believe i am a police b/c im so laid back. Thats what you gotta do though turn it on and off.
Officer Josh. How nice it would be if you could truly drive down the road, mind your own business, abide by all the laws and never be cited.
Look at what’s happening with the DOT Numbering regulations. The enforcement officers are citing ordinary hobbyists, driving their cars to the race track. Calling them “commercial”. Bologna.
Officers are stretching these numbering regulations beyond what the law is to try to get everyone to have a number. Why? Because it’s easier for them than trying to figure out if a racer is in business or just recreation. AND the State gets the fines.
Just because you’re not breaking a law doesn’t mean you won’t be cited.
I agree, no more fines. Instead there is a new sliding scale.
For example:
They catch some jerkoff doing 120 in a 35 zone. No ticket, no fine. They take him home to his family and give him a revolver with one round and he has to point it at the head of someone he loves. He pulls the trigger. Then he can understand just how f’ing stupid it is to drive recklessly and endanger someone else’s life. If he’s going to kill someone, he may as well kill someone close to him, rather than someone close to me.
This works especially well for drunk driving. Each time the person gets caught, they add another round to the gun, until eventually he does kill someone he cares about.
One idea I’ve always liked would be; everytime some young punk in a ricer is caught racing, they take a part off his car. “That wing cost you $2000? Too bad”. Personally, I’d take his steering wheel first.
Most of you people posting here are just bitter because studies have shown that 60% of the people who get tickets and cause accidents, do it over and over again. And guess what? They then come on this website and whine about it because Mr. Big Bad Policeman stopped them from driving like a douchebag.
I work part-time at two law enforcement agencies in Wisconsin. The departments see no money from any tickets I write. The majority of the money goes to the state, some goes into a statewide fund to provide funding to officers, and about 1% goes into the municipalities general fund (not to the department’s fund).
Again, what you cops (ie stevo) keep bringing up is the example of the guy excessively speeding and driving very unsafe for conditions- nobody here ever argues that that guy shouldn’t be stopped.
However, that scenario likley represents 1% of tickets written. The other 99% of speeding tickets go to average citizens that are driving safely for conditions, but are deemed “speeders” nontheless. That’s what everyone hates and that’s why traffic cops that write such citations are disrespected.
Common sense, really.
I hate do this but Im about to rant and rave for a minute or two.
First of all I truly do respect police men and women. However the true corruption that goes on (and I’m not talking about every officer) ruins our respect and personally mine. The corruption in my town and the surrounding town is ludicrous including a lot of the state police.
My Uncle frank is an ex-MA statie. And of my good friends who is a cop want to quit because of the bullsh*t that is going on in the system nowadays. Yes officer Joe we do need you and want you to be there when shit hits the fan.
However, there is feeling that why should I trust an officer just because I now need his help. Slow response times and sh*tty please work isn’t solving anything!!!
I just read a recent study that guess how many accidents were caused by speed??? 50, 60, 70% no 4% just four.
Honestly tell me when a True traffic survey was done about reasonable and prudent speed limits which is required? Look at our Europeans palls this done at least every two years. But not us. Please tell me in a honest opinion that 75 or 80 miles per hour on a three or four lane highway is not reasonable and prudent.
Also what up this general speed limit settings just because of a population section where it is actually prudent to drive a different higher or lower speed limit (if that makes any sense).
Anyways I digress that look at the unfair judgment on speeding. Oh no its cool because you dont have a speeding record and youre ONLY going 90 in a 55. Oh wait Mr. I have two tickets on the books Ill charge you for 10 maybe even five over the speed limit.
Obviously people are going to speed when the speed limits are unreasonable!
I completely agree with this article that a point system not a monetary system is a much better reasoning for speeding etc.
The more tickets the higher youre Insurance rate goes up. Also though I think serious offenses like OUI and DUI should be STRICKLY enforced and with severe punishments HIGH fines and long I mean very long license suspensions aka years just for the first one. etc. This is just one example. Also the quotta is illegal but states have gotten around this. MA just 3 years started a system that every ticket a statie writes he gets an hour of overtime and half an hour of overtime for a written warning.
I know this is just a rant and possibly some good ideas but then again Im probably f*cked in the head by OJ’s standards (no offense). Obviously are system is F*CKED up and something needs to be done about it. At leat restate joe I do truly respect ya maybe not trust ya but respect ya. Im out for now. Peace and love
i borrowed a family members car to take my father home today,as the car uses alot less gas than my truck and its a very long drive, a state patrol man pulled us over and said the car was loud (it was not)also said liscence plate light was out (it was)so he informs me my neice has 2 unpaid parking tickets and the plates are suspended,so i tell him the plates are good til feb 2009(i know this cuz i looked before i used the car as i am a responsible driver)and havent had a ticket in 14 years. so this idiot cop gives me a ticket for bad plates and no ticket/bad lights on plates, basically-i got a ticket for something i diddnt do and no ticket for what he pulled me over for.i hope they throw this out of court otherwise im gonna fight it-hate to waste tax payers money but what else can i do? i will take it to jury trial if i have too even if it costs me more money cuz i refuse to give the pri(k the satisfaction- dave wisconsin
one thing for sure- if people fear higher insurance rates they must fear ticket costs as well. They’re both money.
In Europe fines are strictly civil- they can take the vehicle but not the driver, no arrest powers on civil matters. If money losses don’t deter then the only thing left is jail, which some don’t mind either.
Probably road design and flexible traffic controls are more effective overall at reducing risks. The suggested changes aren’t really changes from the driver’s point of view, but of course are well-advised as to removing the incentives to bad behaviour by LEO.
BTW- always register the vehicle out-of-state and in a company name. Can’t tell you how many tickets are avoided that way, all “business offenses” or paperwork violations are immunized. These only apply to in-state vehicles and to drivers with personal registrations.
if i let a friend borrow my car and she got a speeding ticket does that make mine insurance go up
There is no doubt that this is one of the major problems on the roadways in the United States. I spent 40 years as a commercial transport operator and a commercial motor coach operator and I can tell you that this threat to the drivers of all vehicles are effected in a negative manner by what I consider government at all levels to be corrupt and every thing they do is to increase the money they are able to control whether it be income tax, property tax, road use tax, sales tax etc, etc. I am amazed that another can see this scam that has been perpetuated upon the American public although it is far older than the global warming scam it has been a very expensive one and has been an instrument I believe in the premature deaths of a number of people not to mention the burden placed upon those earning a living behind the wheel of a commercial vehicle. Wouldn’t it be marvelous to return our law enforcement agencies back to concentrating on the public safety of the citizens they have sworn to protect. Fred
If the law is being broken they will enforce it. If you want to decrease the amount of money the government takes in from traffic fines simply reduce the number of traffic violations. As a commercial driver you probably drove as fast as you could get away with in order to meet your deadline for pick up or delivery. or to keep a schedule. If you complied with the speed limits and obeyed all the other traffic laws safety would take care of itself and the police could concentrate on other more important issues. Let me ask you, how many tickets did you recieve where you were in 100% compliance and you still recieved a citation? I do agree with you on the global warming being a scam though.