It’s Just A Decimal Point: The Dirty Secret Behind Breathalyzers
October 25th, 2007 Posted in Breathalyzers, DUI/DWI, James Baxter In 1990, the New Jersey courts declared that the science was settled, the debate was over: breath analysis is a reliable and accurate means by which to determine blood alcohol content (BAC). This proclamation is known as the “Downie decision.” The lead witness, who held the most sway in the court’s opinion, was Dr. Dubowski, [...]It’s Just A Decimal Point: The Dirty Secret Behind Breathalyzers
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The DOT(Department of Transportation) test used to test airline pilots, truckdrivers,railroad crews and all federally regulated transportation workers as well as in most cases police,firefighters, etc. are all the same. It is a national standard imposed on states under the threat of losing federal funds. The procedure is often used by employers even where it isn’t required. It is a urinalysis test and labs that perform it must be certified and follow very specific procedures. Among other things they must split the samples so that a retest can be done for verification of a positive result if requested.Proper labeling procedures as well as chain of custody must be followed.Labs have lost their DOT certification for sloppy procedures. DOT standards are stricter (and much more accurate)than what they are for an ordinary motorist. I’ve probably taken 50 of them. In response to Greg and JLD the DOT standard is that if your blood alchohol content is under 0.02% you have passed. It’s entirely possible that bulldozer operator on the bridge above you did have a beer at lunch and still passed a test far more accurate and stringent than anything your going to get on a routine traffic stop for “alledged suspicion” of OUI. Interestingly some people have “failed” the DOT tests and successfully proven them in error by paying for expensive and even more accurate hair follicle tests. These are the same tests used by the Department of Defense, CIA, etc on people with the highest national security classification. These DOT tests can also prove very costly to taxpayers when they are used by supervisors to harrass employees. In many cases once accused and forced to test an employee can not be allowed to continue working in sensitive positions for obvious reasons and then gets paid for being sent home when he passes the test. When contracts to do testing are given to “freinds” of municipal officials tests are often required with ridiculous frequency. As I pointed out, despite near perfect attendance for 20 years the taxpayers have paid for me to take about 50 of these tests and in some cases to sit at home till the result comes back and get paid for it.
Obviously cops have a job to do, and it’s a tough one. I tip my hat to them. But there are cases where they go too far. I can tell you after living in bloomington 10 years, I’ve seen my share. In one case, I had an officer literally follow me out of a bar parkinging lot all the way across bloomington, then pull me over right when I was turning into my driveway. I had one corona, that was it. I asked why i was pulled over, have gave me bs. he then made me sit for 20 minutes then had me blow the breathalyzer. Obviously I passed. Now what pissed me off was the disrespect in the cops attitude for me. He wanted to string me up. When I asked what I blew, he wouldn’t tell me, then looked more mad ‘cuz I passed. I guess I was the bad guy for “wasting his time with my innocence”. I called the police sargent to voice my anger, and he simply said the cop had every right to follow me because simply leaving a bar/restaurant can now be considered “probable cause”. He further said that if your going to live in the suburbs this is what you should expect ‘cuz all the pressure from MAD etc.
Case 2- I’m not going to give the full story on this one, but I was pulled into the richfield police station for supposedly blowing the minimum. Again, I was denied the right to see these results. Regardless of all of that, i was denied the right to an attorney as I was told I requested one “too late”. (15 min. after getting to the station to be exact.) The officer and I discussed this for at least 5 min. Here’s the sad part. I wanted to challenge this in trial. So I recieved an audio cd of my time at the station. (The richfeild station has no visual setup). MY CD WAS DOCTORED!!! THAT WHOLE CONVERSATION ABOUT MY REQUEST FOR MY LAWYER WAS CUT OUT!!! You might think boo hoo for me, but remember this example when you find yourself getting mistreated by your local authority.
Fisch, I’ve had the same experience. Driving home from work late at night I’ve been pulled over for no good reason several times and twice made to take a sobriety test when I had nothing to drink. Both times the SOB was actually mad because I hadn’t been drinking. Even if I had failed he still would have had to concoct some sort of grounds to justify the stop and make the arrest. He was prepared to lie and falsify his report to justify it. It seems highly unlikely that all the time he wasted following you that there were no other incidents that required a response but it’s obvious what his supervisors wan’t to see on his log sheet. The next time you go to vote and your community wants a new millage for more police your going to have to ask yourself wether your more likely to be a victim of a criminal while he’s busy making up lies about why he stopped you or wether your more likely to be the victim he’s making up the lies about.
Both of the last posts make good points. I’m a non.drinker but I realize can wind up in just as bad a situation as if I drank. If I don’t standup for rational law enforcement and standards who’s gonna be there when I get falsely stopped or worse yet, arrested. We’ve ALL got to stand up together against this sorta crap. I don’t drink but I’m dam sure gonna try to help make some sense out of the situation. We’ve got cops running around the county treating drivers like crap and continue to get by with it. It’s a lame excuse tell you “cuz all the pressure from MAD etc”. Your lucky you didn’t get tasered like that driver did in Utah the other day for a simple traffic stop and of course that did his 6 month pregnant wife good to set there and watch her husband struggling with the painful tasering. You guys need to cut and paste your comments into a email to your congressmen. I know the reluctance to to do so but it won’t hurt and it might actually do some good. We have too many rogue cops running around and there don’t seem to be any way to get rid of them.
Alchol + Driving = Death
I think Sal – Long Island should get today’s award for COMPLETELY MISSING THE &%@##@% POINT!
I think there should be an allowed impaired driving time. This time would be between 2am and 3am and would not be on state highways or interstate highways. At this time the speed limit would be strictly enforced to 20mph. Anybody caught breaking the 20mph speed limit would be subject to an enormous fine. (The only people driving at this time should be drunks anyways. And it would be an understanding that driving during this time would be at your own risk.) This new ordnance would allow the impaired drivers a somewhat regulated time to drive home in a “at risk” environment. Upon receiving a driving license the laws regarding this would be clearly stated and applicants would be required to sign a contract stating they understand it. All other traffic laws would still be enforced during this time (crossing the center, etc..) At the time of a traffic stop, impairment would be determined by a field sobriety test, not a breathylizer. Fines during this time would be much greater (3 maybe 4 times). Just came up with this off the top of my head. What do you think :)
How many of us have been pulled over for bogus reasons around “bar close” time and usually the first thing asked is “Have you had anything to drink tonight?”? If you are sober, usually the officer pulls some bullshit reason out of his ass as a reason why he stopped you. If you have been drinking, well you’re fucked anyways so it doesn’t matter. The point is that many officers do not stop vehicles becase they APPEAR to be impaired. They stop them because there is a high probability that anybody driving at that late at night has had some drinks. It’s bullshit.
I agree with Notabovethelaw. While the idea seems obsurd, there must be a happy medium. If there was an hour between 2-3a where impaired driving was acceptable, and anybody driving during that hour knew the risks of driving during that hour, then it takes away the argument that impaired drivers are infringing on others safety. If you limit the speed (and strictly enforce it) it also lowers the risk of deadly high speed collsions. Shit, even make it a 15mph limit. Of course you would still have to enforce traffic laws, but there would be a greater tolerance for impaired driving. As long as you were under the 15mph limit and were staying between the lines, coming to a complete stop, etc…. What harm would you be doing? This is by no means giving an okay to drunk driving, just loosening up on the “impaired” driving. I don’t think you should put a number on it (BAC) I think it should be determined by a field sobriety test (which would also be reconfigured) if necessary.
Side note. Does anybody know of any statistical comparisons of accidents, deaths, etc.. since the .08 law has gone into effect in comparison to the .12 law? Also the comparison to the number of annual DUI. Repeat offenses? ect…?
Is there any evidence that the .08 law has done anything but allow Johnny Law to be able to buy a new Mustang GT cruiser or Dodge Charger R/T crusier every year? Or justify upgrading to the new hot-shit LED flashers on the noncurrent cruisers?
A meta-analysis of .08 BAC laws in 19 jurisdictions in the United States
Here is one study. It shows that 947 people could have been saved from 1982-2000 if the .08 law had been adopted by all 50 states. That ain’t shit!! Naive statement sure, but that is only a fraction over 4 people per months NATIONWIDE!! How many peoples lives have been negatively affected because they were stopped and blew a .08-.12? Again, more of a reason they should have an ACCEPTED impaired driving time. Everybody wins. Now lets hear how stupid I am. I admit this is very naive thinking. I don’t have all the answers. I just think a lot of people are getting fucked that shouldn’t be. I know several that have. Anybody have any other options where everybody can come out ahead?
To Notabovethelaw on Nov 27, 2007, I am a college student in Florida who lives in Ohio. At the end of every semester I drive home (that’s about 800 mi). It takes about 13 or 14 hours to get home and it is not out of the ordinary to be driving at two or three in the morning. So to say that the speed limit would be reduced to 20 mph and the laws more strictly enforced would seriously inconvenience me (adding at least an hour to my drive time).
I do not drink, and I will never drink any alcoholic beverage. I do not know why anyone would want to drink that nasty stuff, but that is your decision. I think that anyone who drives like a drunk person whether drunk or not should be treated the same (and treated as DUIs are now). I have seen way more people on cellphones driving like they were drunk than actual drunk people. That is not to say that I advocate the outlawing of cellphone use while driving because I understand that many people can talk on their cellphone and drive reasonably well at the same time. If cellphones are outlawed in cars then eating should be as well. In fact, why not outlaw all activities other than driving.
The point is that I do not care what your BAC is or whether you have been driving while talking on the phone or whatever else; the point is that I do not want to be on the road with someone who can’t drive, whatever the reason is.
P.S. It is very irritating to read through all these posts and see so many spelling and grammar mistakes in just one post, let alone the 100+ other posts. This reflects very badly on the education of the writer.
tlewis3348, I would have no problem with you driving during my drunk hour (2-3a). If you were on a state highway or interstate you would not have to abide by the 20mph limit, otherwise you would. To be honest with you I don’t care if you are inconvenienced for an hour twice a year. I like driving impaired a couple times a week! I am the one being inconvenienced. That’s right, I’m a selfish mother%#@!er. Really though, why would you need to drive that late at night. You should really get to bed early, get a good night sleep, and then leave at 5 or 6am. 14 hours driving would still get you home in time for a late dinner. Mom could keep a plate warm for you. There a lot of people who should have the right to drive drunk during this time and I believe it is your civic responsiblity to be understanding of this right. Sorry for the bad grammar. I am actually typing this on my Motorola Q right now and it is really hard to drive, type, and not spill my roadie. I’m almost home though. About 15 more miles.
I tried to read most of these. My problem with all this is that I have scraped too many bodies off the pavement since 1970 to do away with enforcement of these laws. This does not include the people killed in their bedrooms, livingrooms and on sidewalks by drunks in/on motorized transportation. To answer one person’s question: Yes the number of dead and mangled I’ve picked up has dropped of somewhat since so many places where I work have adopted the .8% law. If you disagree with these laws get with your legislators to come up with BETTER laws. Most of your arguments have really been ridiculous while many display an open death wish. To these especially, reduce my work load – stay off our streets, please.
John I doubt that many of the people you scrapped up off the pavement had much less then a 1.2 BAC or so. That’s my understanding where in the REAL world drivers start impairment. I have nothing against REASONABLE enforcement but we’ve gone to extremes in this country. If you want to talk impairment then lets talk cell phones. This drunk driving thing is NOT about drunk driving, it’s about Prohibition. Oklahoma and recently Tulsa passed a law that forbids anybody, even parents from giving their kids a sip of alcohol of any kind in their own home. Conceivably this could even entail certain types of cough syrup containing alcohol. Parents can be arrested for something that takes place in their own home and never interferes with anybody else. If I’m not abusing anyone, what I do in my castle is nobody elses damn business. Yea, I know the argument. A sip of alcohol will damn sure not make alcoholics out of anybody. Fifty years ago many of us had alcohol available as kids. My dad WAS a alcoholic, but that’s abusing it. The result is I’m a life long non-driver. I almost never have alcohol in the house. I’m told that a drink of red wine a day is good for my heart problem and I still don’t use it. As a non-drinker though, I respect peoples ability to drink in a responsible manner, in moderate amounts. Somebody who has a glass of wine with their dinner at a restaurant is not going to be involved in a accident caused by alcohol, but it would be considered a alcohol “related” accident. Extremism on any subject is bad. I don’t know about any other state but in OK if you get caught peeing in the bushes, your considered a sex offender for the rest of your life and go on the list with the other sex offenders!! I want anybody to explain how peeing in the bushes makes one a sex offender? Extremism. When the supreme court approved sobriety check points they said that it was worth the minor inconvenience. Talk to some drivers and you’ll find out how mission creep has certainly set in. Sobriety check points have become a generic term for “lets see what we can arrest this driver for”. Give the government a inch and they take a mile. Read; http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/11960836.html?page=all&c=y
http://www.coppellgazette.com/articles/2007/11/14/plano_star-courier/news/00000000000001news.txt
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2007/11/11/news/wyoming/508df93367b8b6058725738f006df92d.txt
You know and I know that talking to legislators is like talking to a brick wall in most cases. I know….some of them have heard from me enough to learn my name. I tried to get a anti-traffic citation bill (traffic citation quota’s are legal in OK), something that’s a no brainier, through the state legislature. It didn’t even get out of committee. They said it would be too much trouble for a municipality to comply with. Now explain to me how “not doing something” is TOO MUCH trouble? Having said that I still encourage everybody to contact their legislators about anything on their mind. If they hear from enough people on a particular subject they are going to pay attention.
Before someone gives me 10 lashes with a wet noodle I’ll correct my typo from the previous post, reads “much less then a 1.2 BAC or so” should read “much less then a .12 BAC or so”. Kinda like the cops, I got my decimal point mixed up. Unlike the cops, I’m not going to throw someone in jail over it.
If you didn’t know let me explain why so many states have the .08 BAC. This was not a elective action, it was FORCED on the states in order for them to receive their deserved highway funds. The legislative process was effectively hijacked by the federal government. The zealots know how the system works and instead of going around to all 50 states in an effort to get the .08 BAC into law, they did it in one fail swoop of legislation by using federal highway funds as the baseball bat to force states to .08. Isn’t it interesting that the feds are not supposed to be able to determine state traffic laws but they found a way around this little minor problem thus effectively tying the hands of state legislators. So much for democracy. These special interest groups such as MADD don’t give a damn what the people think. It’s my way or the highway. Don’t let democracy get into the way.
ATTORNEY Kip Fuller has tossed canon of ethics for cat & mouse games and 30 pieces of silver.
Paul- made a $400.00 investment to specifically help him violate the law.
Fritz- you need a lot of professional help dude.
Remember the words of Sting-”Every move you make , every breath you take I’ll be watching you”
AMF to all you paranoid lushes
cortezcar9:
You sound like a cop; you’re doing a very nice job of proving the stereotype.
Fritz is one of the saner folks posting here and you say he needs professional help; project much?
Paul’s $400 expense was not to help him violate the law; it is to help protect him from unchecked government power.
Kip Fuller is trying to make sure people accused of a crime have a fair shot at due process. That’s what lawyers do.
Any LE here should also keep in check that repspect is earned. Your little tin badge does not make you Superman. You are not faster than a speeding bullet. Remember, it is us taxpayers that pay your salary. Some of us don’t give a fuck and I want you guys to always remember that when you make a traffic stop and start copping an attitude. We all have much to lose. Is trying to be supercop worth risking something that can be snatched away so easily?
Well Cortezcar9 you remember this. I’m the guy that votes on every police millage. I’m the guy that can hammar away at my state representatives about mandatory collective bargaining laws that allow little tin cods like you from fleecing the public out of thousands in ticket writing overtime and funneling it directly into your pocket. Most importantly I’m the guy that sits on a jury and has has to decide who’s credable and who isn’t. Every time you go out on the street with your snotty little attitude you educate another voter!!
There are many variables that can alter the outcomes of a BAC and/or BAL. For example, if you were to rinse your mouth out with a mouth wash prior to being tested your score could register >4 however, within about 3 minutes it would be back to normal because it is not systemic just lingering in your mouth. Mouth wash is very high in ETOH and therefore raises the breathalizer score Metabolic syndromes can also cause altered variables along with any medicinal syrup that uses ETOH as a carrier. I don’t put much stock in any of it unless I know exactly the protocol that was used at the time of pick up.
To Beware the swine
We know were not supercop but the public wants us to be. We are reminded every day when a LEO is killed for saving people like yours ass and people that dont deserve saving b/c thats our job. Did you know that the most dangerous thing a LEO can do is a traffic stop and that more LEO’s are attacked or killed during those than any other incident. Hell if they took away speeding laws that would help us but then we’d be scrapin bodies off the street. Which one do you prefer.
And that old line “we pay your salary” is true but we also pay our own salaries then b/c we pay taxes too buddy. But you dont decide where your taxes go. If you like to threaten us that much with hounding the state rep. then it would of been already done b/c even though you wont admit it the world needs us.
Officer Josh writes:
“We know were not supercop but the public wants us to be.”
Nonsense. What the public wants is for the cops to enforce laws that are reasonable and based on science rather than the nanny-state mindset that we have now. It is not the state’s job to protect us from stupidity. With the extant set of traffic laws, your job is neither reasonable nor effective. Were I in your shoes, I would be screaming bloody hell at all the intrusive rules.
“We are reminded every day when a LEO is killed for saving people like yours ass and people that dont deserve saving b/c thats our job. Did you know that the most dangerous thing a LEO can do is a traffic stop and that more LEO’s are attacked or killed during those than any other incident.”
This should not be surprising since traffic stops are overwhelmingly the major interface between LEOs and the public.
“Hell if they took away speeding laws that would help us but then we’d be scrapin bodies off the street.”
Again, that is utter BS. You don’t have any reason to believe that that is true. It is just more fear mongering. You do not do anybody a service – even yourself – when you stop motorists for running 65 mph in a 60 mph zone and where the 95th percentile is 65-67 mph, yet that is the focus of most speed enforcement.
The most dangerous thing a cop can do is pin on the badge: cops suffer from much higher rates for divorce, alcoholism, suicide, and other self-destructive behavior. It used to be that Officer Friendly walked a beat and knew the people on it by name. Now, they ride around, isolated in cars with radio and A/C, not hearing the people, not knowing their names, not interacting unless something has gone wrong. Almost by definition, when a cop shows up, it’s bad news. And then you have the audacity to wonder why people don’t like or trust you.
“And that old line “we pay your salary” is true but we also pay our own salaries then b/c we pay taxes too buddy. But you dont decide where your taxes go. If you like to threaten us that much with hounding the state rep. then it would of been already done b/c even though you wont admit it the world needs us.”
I agree with that. However, the world does not need policing in its current form. It should be very difficult to arrest anybody, even harder to convict them, just Thomas Jefferson envisioned over 200 years ago. We both know that is not the case
You shouldn’t be arresting people for issues best handled by medical intervention such as drugs and alcoholism. Sure, take the immediate hazard off the road but then let the medical people take over. Alcoholics don’t “learn their lesson” by going to jail and having LE repeating the same failed action time after time is insanity.
And you don’t need to be arresting people for running at the 95th percentile. Leave them alone. Change your focus to deal with identify theft, fraud and crimes against people and property.
If I make a mistake, I suffer the repercussions. When you make a mistaken arrest, you should suffer the repercussions, only yours should be much more severe because you’re using public force and the color of law so your level of accountability is greater.
when you stop motorists for running 65 mph in a 60 mph zone and where the 95th percentile is 65-67 mph, yet that is the focus of most speed enforcement.
First of all your generalizing, i for one do not stop people for going 5-10 over and only ticket most people going over 15. All your using is stereotypes. I dont know any officer that stops people for 5 over.
Your small towns then i agree with all of you they are a little crazy with the law but big city cops are not that strict with speeding. I dont care that a person half runs a red light or that some teenagers are on there front porch drinkin 40’s. I’m most likely on a more important call.
you say no wonder the public trust you; then i wonder why we dont trust the public especially when the complaintant becomes the villan.
Im not gonna argue traffic anymore cuz thats not my deal i dont do them often b/c theres more important things to do.
“First of all your generalizing, i for one do not stop people for going 5-10 over and only ticket most people going over 15. All your using is stereotypes. I dont know any officer that stops people for 5 over.” — Officer Josh
Then you’ve not been paying attention.
“Your small towns then i agree with all of you they are a little crazy with the law but big city cops are not that strict with speeding”
I agree with that. However, those small town cops have just as much authority to extract money as you do and they are motivated by that money. That is the sine qua non of their existence. LAPD rarely enforces traffic laws, especially speed limits, concentrating instead on gangs and truly egregious activities. Aside from the congestion – try leaving UCLA and traveling East on Sunset about 5 PM – traffic moves well, with few incidents, so it is obvious that cops play no essential role in traffic flow.
“Im not gonna argue traffic anymore cuz thats not my deal. . .”
But that is the focus of this website and these fora.
Here’s one for you also. Very prevelant in the small town I live in Colorado. two/three squad cars sit outside the two bars at night, especially on weekends. They observe a patron leaving the bar, they pull that person over and roust them from their vehicle. The officers claim is that “I believe you have been drinking and are over the limit” They arrest the individual, take them 50 miles away to the county seat. THEN administer the breathalyzer test ! The person is found to NOT be intoxicated either by not having drank enough alcohol or they were drinking coffee or soda. The individual is released and told to find their own means of transportation back to the town they were arrested in. (no bus or taxi service available). The arrest is on the individuals record and it WILL NOT be removed without lengthy legal work at the expense of the individual arrested illegally. This has happens consistantly. The cases have been fought, but the courts in this county REFUSE to assist the complaintant. The local Judge has a pat statement “I believe the officer was with-in his bounds of authority to arrest you and it is YOUR responsibility to have this removed from your criminal record” “It is not the county’s responsibility to provide you with transportation because you were inconvienced” The state law enforcement agency, CBI, the States Attorney Generals office has been advised of this. They REFUSE to investigate or intervien. They claim that it is a “local” matter and not with-in their juristiction. Now the officer that made the arrest chalks up a point against the other officers in the department, BECAUSE, as I discovered thru an inside source, it is an on going contest as to which officer can make the most arrests in a month. So, how many other “small” towns across the United States have their on going contests? I am not a drinker anddo not go to bars if I chose to have a drink, and I think if you are drinking and driving, and you shouldn’t be, you should be arrested and charged. I am dead against drinking and driving, but this game they play is distroying alot of people. Finally, if you are arrested on a drunk driving charge DEMAND that a blood test be taken ! Then ONLY at a local hospital or medical facility. A Law Enforcement Officer IS NOT qualified to draw blood and you do not have to submit to it from them.
very interesting, but I don’t agree with you
Idetrorce
Mack,
I agree that sitting outfront a bar is wrong. I always thought that doing that would be entrapment or maybe thats not the word but illegal of some sort. The officer has to prove that you are unable to drive. If he follows you and you swerve then that is one thing but sitting out front of a bar and arresting people for getting in the car is rediculous. I as an officer would never do that. You are right though alot of small departments do that.
I also will have to go against your advice about submitting to a blood test unless you ABSOLUTELY SURE that you will pass the test. If you are drunk and you get pulled over the best thing in the long run is to refuse the breathalizer/blood test all together it helps in your sentencing.
Let’s review some facts, as judged by my first hand experience and observation:
By far, the most lawless group of individuals (identifiable by a sub-group) that I have ever witnessed or been around are male cops. Heavy drinking and driving, heavy drug use, domestic abuse, infidelity, heavy pornography including children’s, personal vendettas, overt and shameless lying, extensive bribery, satanic practices, and more. What is going on with this militaristic group? Why are so many higher level and “up and coming” cops (as well as judges) Freemasons, who all have oaths to one another that SUPERCEDE any taken while on the job or for the public? This is a fact and goes a long way to explain how their little click operates and seems so corrupt to all of us. They have their own laws and codes of conduct that we are not often privy to. All truth and freedom and liberty must be subverted, which is why a much closer examination of the laws, our constitutional rights, the “scientific” justification for any study or procedure will always show that the SYSTEM we live under is illusion. Greed, power and control is what explains everything within the SYSTEM. None of them care if your loved one is killed by a drunk driver, but they will use your guilt, empathy, and compassion against you to slowing rid you of all your freedoms while emptying your pockets. This is the ugly truth, now let’s really do something about it!!!
This article hit home for me as I had my life turned upside over the breathlizer and BAC. Long story short I was pulled over at a checkpoint during St. Patty’s in 2004. (If any acting officer can give insight on this would be helpful). The rookie officer that pulled me over said my breath was immensely wreaking of alcohol as I exhaled from my cigarette. I was them escorted by two other male officers off to the side who PATTED ME DOWN AND CUFFED ME!
Then I was contained for another 30 minutes until they finally decided to proceed with the usual testing. The entire time the officer performing the test kept yelling at me while I was shaking from being cold (45 degrees California weather with a slight breeze)and falling out of my shoes because I was wearing platforms. I asked the officer with my better judgement if I may please perform these tests barefoot in the street because I was afraid of the inaccuracy of my coordination and balance in my shoes. The officer agreed then scolded me as I put one foot in front of the other because my ankles were turned out slightly. (Mind you my feet naturally turn out and I was struggling to do this because it hurts) I guess they weren’t straight enough for him so they detained me in the makeshift motor home camp site they built in the alley.
I was asked the standard questions until they asked me where I was born. As soon as I mentioned San Diego EVERY SINGLE OFFICER brought up what a nice place it was , etc. Then they asked me who may parents were since they didn’t believe how old I was with my license ( I was 22 a the time and look very young for my age). AGAIN, EVERY OFFICER CHIMED in with a comment. ( My parents both work for the justice system). I asked permission to speak to see what the heck was going on since it became social hour on who I was. Then another officer said “Your arrested sweetheart and your can pick up your car in the morning.”
Finally the BAC test. Here is the best part. After all this I was not drunk! I did not have one OUNCE of alcohol in my system and they arrested me for a .05! How? Simple.It just so happens that the microwave was RIGHT NEXT TO ME and every time an officer turned it on I watched the breathalizer jump up points. Lucky me that someone chose to microwave a burrito as they tested me.I was then transported with every other drunk person they caught, signed all the paperwork necessary,then was released an hour later from the city jail for “good behavior”.
As far as my case. It was dismissed . It just so happens that night the officers were pulling over who ever they wanted and flat out profiled me. FYI, there has to be a significant pattern at a check point. There was no pattern. AND in the report the officer testifying was caught lying in his report about me. It said I was acting out inappropriate manner, when in reality I was as polite and cooperative.
After all this I have a mark on my record for being arrested(misdemeanor), not to mention the humiliation to me and my family( it was in the news) AND almost having my case moved to a different county due to the fact I had an active family member working at the elected court for my case.
In conclusion, train your officers, and or find a new system!
Wouldn’t it be interesting if a few hookers, drug addicts, porno suppliers, and incarcerated “drunk drivers” had access to a computer and were “chatting” on this forum right now? Me thinks they might tell some interesting stories about our “boys in blue” – or is that boys in fascist black? The first time I heard comparisons between Nazi Germany and the USA (about 5 years ago) I was angered at how preposterous it seemed; now I wonder how I ever missed the obvious connections. I also think that those people who were killed by drunk drivers might ask from the grave, “Why is our system so, and who will protect us from the protectors?”.
It is known fact that police officers, firemen, judges, politicians, and anyone either displaying a Freemasons symbol on their car or talking in Freemason vernacular (”Are you on the square?”) are exempt from being singled out or punished for being a drunk driver, UNLESS they kill someone of importance or are being punished for not towing the party line. This is the real training young cops and border patrols get: who to target and who to let free, regardless of any evidence, truth, or morality. If they play along, then a door opens for them and reveals quite a World, one which is far too tempting for young guys with certain profiled traits. All the better if they have prior military training. And around and around we go.
Finally, I will say that “Mack” sheds some interesting light on the subject. Various agendas being played out, with participants at various levels of “law enforcement”, that seem absolutely crazy to the rest of us civilians. What Mack doesn’t know or didn’t mention is what the participants get for winning these “contests” and why set them up in the first place.
First, these contests or agendas are created for a couple of reasons, 1) to generate revenue, 2) to create fear and subservience to “law enforcement”, and 3) to “legally” target certain “pain in the a-s” individuals in the community, which acts as an effective form of extortion and behaviour modification, if you get my meaning.
As far as the rewards go, Officer Josh might be very upset with me for spilling some well guarded secrets, because let’s face it, they’re not working for the paycheck or for the priviledge of “protecting and serving” us… Some of the best “whistle blowers” are the ex-wives of cops, who often tell incredible tales of depravity and lawlessness, but at risk of extreme peril. Hey Josh, what lodge do you belong to???
Think about my posts next time you are pulled over by our “guardians” for whatever reason. Their pretext has almost nothing to do with their agenda, which is why we are not dealing with mere incompetence or lack of training. Rather, we are dealing with diabolical levels of corruption that has woven itself into the fabric of our society over a fairly short period of time. Consider yourself warned and educated. Proceed accordingly.
Dr F you make some very good points. While I won’t go as far as blaming the Masons or Skull&Bones for all our ills, I do believe we are well on our way to a theocratic police state.
We used to watch Reed & Malloy never fail to Mirandize a suspect. Fiday & Gannon always made a big deal about properly executing a search warrant.
Now we watch real-life COPS bust down doors and rough up perps after entraping someone into a drug deal or performing a warrantless search.
We are being conditioned to equate authority with security and security with freedom. I don’t know at this point if it’s even possible–it may be too late–but we need to get our Country and its Constitution back.
Again, how is it lawfully acceptable to wrongfully accuse someone of being drunk when their BAC is zero?
Not saying ALL but a large sum of people are corrupt in general in this world, so be it who ever you are. It’s human nature to want more than what is given.
Going around in circles about this topic doesn’t mean a damn thing. It just means as a whole we acknowledge that there is a problem with the system.
So unless some one gave give up an honest answer as to “why” with a little insite followed by some concrete detail from any given position or professional view without pointing a finger and stating your case objectively,it doesn’t matter.
I want to point the finger ( for being seen as the negative on the recieveing end of my first hand experience). I feel I have every right to be upset. Seems fair and just.
But, I objectively have to look at those people who do “serve and protect” with some ounce of integrity.
I guess the main question would be for everyone is how do we fix a partially corrupt system with partially corrupt people operating it and obeying to carry it out?
You be the judge, their is an asshole born every minute.
And every idea looks great in writting berfore its execution.
Innocent until proven guilty! Damn…….
Opps I had an itchy Submit button clicker. To continue:
I think the only way that can really happen is not through our so-called repersentatives; they are part of the problem.
The people on the front lines of the violations of our rights–cops, prosecutors and judges have to be the ones to stand up and say “no” when they are asked to enforce unconstitutional laws.
Hubcap, don’t be affraid to conect the dots. We can leave Skull and Bones etc. for discussions on the real Elite, but suffice it to say that a ridiculous number of people within “law enforcement” and the military (which are often two of the same) are Masons, plain and simple. Masons are a “secret society” who take very serious oaths with serious consequences. Their law is to stick up and cover up for each other by ANY MEANS necessary. We have been conditioned to shy away from any cries of “conspiracy theory!”, but that doesn’t mean that many don’t exist.
I’ll leave you with a quote from J. Edgar Hoover (head of the FBI for over 40 years), who was privy to many cover-ups and conspiracies (and who was a 33 degree Mason…): “The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.” Exactly, and the various shenanigans played out by cops (who really are just front line fodder and the muscle for the scam) is just the tip of the iceberg. This is why all the cop shows and legal shows and homeland security shows and shows depicting our government as representitive must be plastered all over the TV and movie theatres: to sell us the monstrous scam. And that’s why when many of us find ourselves within their clutches (whether guilty or not) it never looks, sounds, or feels the way we expect or hope it should; rather than any form of justice, it always resembles something much, much closer to… fascism. Intolerant, arrogant, corrupt, cruel, violent fascism. I feel this way and I am a white, upper middle class, “educated”, Waspish, heterosexual male with European ancestry and a clean record. I am who the System is supposed to “protect, elevate, and celebrate” historically (and I say this ironically, not bitterly), so I can’t fathom why any others who are far more prejudiced against can’t see what’s truly being perpetrated against them. Time to wake up, before Officer Josh and his buddies start to view you as “undesirable”, and use some ridiculous traffic violation to get you into their clutches.
Very good point Hubcap.
Serisously is it necessary to bring up the comic book villian “Masons” and consipiricy theories again? Holy effin’ sh@t Batman someone wants their dirty laundry hidden. You can’t tell me that YOU wouldn’t make a deal with the Devil if it meant YOU could live like a King or do what ever the hell YOU wanted with out consequences for being who you are! Next…..
Hubcap, I’m on your side here, but…
“The people on the front lines of the violations of our rights–cops, prosecutors and judges have to be the ones to stand up and say “no” when they are asked to enforce unconstitutional laws.”
No, they don’t have to do anything you want because they think you are a sheep. They would laugh at what you wrote. They derive a great many benefits and pleasures from leaving the System as is. They count on you wasting your time, energy, and resources by writing “nice ideas” to the various levels of criminals who have many assistants hired to shred your words into the garbage. The lower level perps were never “asked” to do these misdeads in the first place, they were “told” to do so under extreme duress, or they got the jobs or were placed into positions of power because they were MORE THAN WILLING to do so. Many enjoy it, revel in it, and define themselves because of it. It is a club and you are not and will not be part of it. They are addicted to their lifestyle, cemented in their beliefs, and glorified in their actions, so there is no rationalizing with this “group”. So what option do you think that really leaves us Hubcap?
Marie, please don’t downplay something you have only a child’s understanding of. As well, your logic confuses me. I agree with you that it is often far too tempting to “do a deal with the devil” and that is primarily why we find ourselves in the mess we are in. You are conditioned to mock my so-called “conspiracy theory” and that is why you don’t see it, don’t understand it, or don’t have any insights on how to change it. Until you understand more, Marie, you are an asset for the status quo and useless to those of us who are trying to do something constructive, and no amount of childish mud-slinging will hide that.
If my childlike insults are stinging you, don’t be to sure to judge me to quickly. I do see it as I have lived though it. My uncle was a corrupt LT. for a very well known PD dept. here OC, Southern California. He is everything a “dirty cop” would be expcted to be. I down play it because what you don’t realize is how big it is and how far it goes. The drugs, hookers, late nights busts, incarciration of victims, cash funding, alcohol abuser, mud slinger, wife beater. Politicians, coucilman, city store owners, local gangs. i can’t tell you how many times i have been hushed for knowing what goes on. Being shuffled to event from event. I hate the fact that he was paroled and put into a local Sober living. Most people are serving 25 years to life for what he did. But that is besides the point.
back to the topic at hand. Again how do you police those people that have chosen to serve and protect you? Last time i checked it was a privilage to work not a right.
How do you regulate a system that obviously needs reconstruction? Do I willfully act hopeful that justice will be served?
So what is the solution Dr. F?
What is being done to change the underworld?
Justice is blind
Marie, I stand corrected and apologize. Your wording slightly confused me. But, like you, I do know how deep the corruption goes and what it might involve. Freemasonry is but a part (a tool if you will) of the System, much like the knife of an assassin.
What keeps the entire thing together is fear; fear of exposure, because everyone who gets involved must be compromised somehow (drugs, homosexuality, satanism, incest, and murder all create tremendous shame). Once compromised, the shame and fear of being revealed will cause people to do almost anything for their “controllers”. This has worked very well for hundreds and hundreds of years, but made more powerful these days because of the ability to covertly record people’s deviance via video cameras and other high tech equipment, some of which police officers use for entertainment even!
Regardless, the solution Marie is EXPOSURE. Exposure of their deviance, their crimes, their membership within these secret groups, and most importantly their connections “up the chain” so to speak. The internet may be the only way, as the court system and government in general are part of the problem not solution. Once exposed and understood, there will be anger, nay fury. That anger can be funneled, which is the main reason of course behind disarming the populace. The real criminals want all the fire power on their side, because they sure as hell don’t have the numbers. This is radical talk, but what else do we realistically have?
And there will be many people who read this thread and ask, “What the hell does this have to do with DUI and speeding tickets, etc?”, with the answer actually being “Everything”. You just haven’t dug deep enough yet, or haven’t been exposed to the underbelly of it yet, or haven’t been able to get beyond the monstrous conspiracy of it yet. And within every blog you ever encounter on the internet these days, you always encounter representatives of the perps who try and mislead, misdirect, cover-up and bastardize the truth. There have been at least 3 people on this thread who are fulfilling these duties, but the truth always has a way of resonating deep within us. And Marie’s reference to the UnderWorld is right on target, except it is not underneath us, it is all around us.
Dr. F. I agree with you hands down. I appologize for my simple views as being such as child, more likely being so since most of it was experienced through childhood. The running joke in my family when someone is taking a “vacation” its for 2-4 years. lol
In response , I do appreciate the way you profoundly put everything together. It sheds light on the generalist perspective on the outside looking in as it was not expected that you and I would have the common bond to share the inside looking out. Like Alice, through the looking glass or Dorothy to the Wizard of oz, i admit my idealist perspective on wanting to believe that there is good in people in crisis situations.
You are right, risking exposure is one reason I don’t jump up and down letting the world in on what I know.
What kills me in the end is knowing that some of the real criminals and deviants are running the system.
I would like to refer back to me being wrongfully accused! If it wasn’t me being me, would i have been so lucky to prove my innocence instead of being made an example?
Well said afterall Marie. There is plenty of good around, just essentially none of it within positions of power and leadership. Your reference to Alice in Wonderland and Wizard of Oz is remarkable and I know from personal experience there is not 1 person in 10,000 that would understand the serious implications of those stories and why you may have mentioned them, offhand or not.
I will end posting on this forum now, but will provide the names of 2 books that absolutely get to the heart of the matter. Any person wanting a wake-up call, or some sane explanation of why they find themselves in certain circumstances (Marie), please have the courage and find a way to buy, borrow, copy, or steal these books…
1) Thanks for the Memories by Brice Taylor
2) Access Denied by Cathy O’Brien