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	<title>Comments on: It Always Starts As A Choice&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Mari</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-7336</link>
		<dc:creator>Mari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 02:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As a Christian I find the idea of this, as well as biometrics to be very scary. I mean how big of a jump is it to say you cannot buy or sell anything unless you allow some kind of mark?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Christian I find the idea of this, as well as biometrics to be very scary. I mean how big of a jump is it to say you cannot buy or sell anything unless you allow some kind of mark?</p>
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		<title>By: Oratio</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-3225</link>
		<dc:creator>Oratio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-3225</guid>
		<description>Sure, Jesse, but only you know that you follow the law(and that means the laws that YOU consider to be law). If an alleged crime has ocurred, you will be a suspect as much as anyone. That might not scare you, being such a good person and concerned citizen, but considering that the government maintain that seven hi-jackers of 9/11 committed the act even though they are still alive, should concern anyone. It should concern people that numerous criminals have been executed in the us, only to be found innocent later. If creditcards and passport can be falsified, so can this. People who has the resources to stage an elaborate terrorist attack, would have only some problem falsifying a realID - or - just finding a joe that look like them, getting his wallet - creating a mock lead. As Cris Michels said, the only thing that can make identification more or less certain, is biometrics. Why would we want that? Can it stop a car bomb, or a missile? But is there such a big risk as to that we might be victim of crime or terrorism? This is pure crap actually. Things like this will succeed in one of two things: false security or public distrust. Will it stop terrorism? Not likely. Hacking and cracking has proven unstoppable, but can be slammed online if every bit is tracked and controlled at every node. ECHELON tries to do this. The whole world need then be controlled. The mafia of sicily has never been so inactive as under Mussoulini, just as the russian mafia exploded into freedom when the wall came down. Living is a risk, every day. Without risk, there is no freedom. 

No, I dont want to live in a world of danger or crime, but yes, I want to live in a world where I could be attacked and killed on the street, my wife raped or my son kidnapped. My freedom, and hopefully yours, is well worth that risk. Where people has freedom to live as they please, they also have freedom to commit atrocities. We must fight it, but with means that has the purpose of conserving our lives as we wish them to be lived. As long as people can feel anger or hatred, there will be murder and terrorism. Just because our technology changes it doesnt mean that we do.
Terrorism cant be twarted by controlling your own population. It can be dampened, yes, to the price of a police state - the freedom we actually thought we were protecting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, Jesse, but only you know that you follow the law(and that means the laws that YOU consider to be law). If an alleged crime has ocurred, you will be a suspect as much as anyone. That might not scare you, being such a good person and concerned citizen, but considering that the government maintain that seven hi-jackers of 9/11 committed the act even though they are still alive, should concern anyone. It should concern people that numerous criminals have been executed in the us, only to be found innocent later. If creditcards and passport can be falsified, so can this. People who has the resources to stage an elaborate terrorist attack, would have only some problem falsifying a realID &#8211; or &#8211; just finding a joe that look like them, getting his wallet &#8211; creating a mock lead. As Cris Michels said, the only thing that can make identification more or less certain, is biometrics. Why would we want that? Can it stop a car bomb, or a missile? But is there such a big risk as to that we might be victim of crime or terrorism? This is pure crap actually. Things like this will succeed in one of two things: false security or public distrust. Will it stop terrorism? Not likely. Hacking and cracking has proven unstoppable, but can be slammed online if every bit is tracked and controlled at every node. ECHELON tries to do this. The whole world need then be controlled. The mafia of sicily has never been so inactive as under Mussoulini, just as the russian mafia exploded into freedom when the wall came down. Living is a risk, every day. Without risk, there is no freedom. </p>
<p>No, I dont want to live in a world of danger or crime, but yes, I want to live in a world where I could be attacked and killed on the street, my wife raped or my son kidnapped. My freedom, and hopefully yours, is well worth that risk. Where people has freedom to live as they please, they also have freedom to commit atrocities. We must fight it, but with means that has the purpose of conserving our lives as we wish them to be lived. As long as people can feel anger or hatred, there will be murder and terrorism. Just because our technology changes it doesnt mean that we do.<br />
Terrorism cant be twarted by controlling your own population. It can be dampened, yes, to the price of a police state &#8211; the freedom we actually thought we were protecting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-3218</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-3218</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see what the big deal is.  Who cares if the government knows what you&#039;re doing.  If you don&#039;t break the law you shouldn&#039;t have to worry about anything.  So quit being so paranoid and just deal with it.  It just makes everything more convenient for those who follow the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see what the big deal is.  Who cares if the government knows what you&#8217;re doing.  If you don&#8217;t break the law you shouldn&#8217;t have to worry about anything.  So quit being so paranoid and just deal with it.  It just makes everything more convenient for those who follow the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Zac</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-1439</link>
		<dc:creator>Zac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-1439</guid>
		<description>All U.S. passports are now being issued with embedded RFID tags; however, at present it&#039;s a convenience rather than a necessity. A few well-placed taps with a rubber mallet would effectively render the tag harmless. The same thing can be applied to any RFID-tagged license. It&#039;s just as easy for people with evil intent to buy a reader as it is for the government to have one (although some folks might say they&#039;re the same group). Broadcast ranges are farther than the so-called experts claim, as is the case with 802.11 wireless signals (up to 2km). BTW, magnetic stripes do not BROADCAST data -- RFID tags do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All U.S. passports are now being issued with embedded RFID tags; however, at present it&#8217;s a convenience rather than a necessity. A few well-placed taps with a rubber mallet would effectively render the tag harmless. The same thing can be applied to any RFID-tagged license. It&#8217;s just as easy for people with evil intent to buy a reader as it is for the government to have one (although some folks might say they&#8217;re the same group). Broadcast ranges are farther than the so-called experts claim, as is the case with 802.11 wireless signals (up to 2km). BTW, magnetic stripes do not BROADCAST data &#8212; RFID tags do.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Michels</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-1313</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Michels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-1313</guid>
		<description>Ok,

A &quot;large&quot; RFID reader is 5&quot; x 5&quot; and the read range is as follows.

Typical Maximum* Read Range
ProxCard® II card - up to 8” (20 cm)
ISOProx® II card - up to 7” (17.5 cm)
DuoProx® II card - up to 7” (17.5 cm)
Smart ISOProx® II card - up to 7” (17.5 cm)
Smart DuoProx® II card – up to 7” (17.5 cm)
HID Proximity &amp; MIFARE® card – up to 7” (17.5
ProxCard® Plus card - up to 3” (7.5 cm)
ProxKey® II keyfob - up to 3” (7.5 cm)
MicroProx® Tag – up to 4” (10.2 cm)
ProxPass® Active Vehicle Tag – N/A
*Depending on local installation conditions.

Where did I get this info?  From the industry learder in RFID technology HID. http://www.hidcorp.com/index.php

Read the product guides read the install instructions You can get a pretty good idea about what RFID is capable of.   The EZ Pass systems that are used on the toll roads have even bigger readers.   they are in excess of 36&quot; x 36&quot; to read less than 15 feet.

In order for some one to &quot;track&quot; you with this technology the reader that watched Rhode Island would have to be the size of Texas.  This isn&#039;t thoery, it&#039;s fact.  

Now that said if one had a sophisticated network of readers one could track the movements of a person.  If a retailer had an RFID reader at the front of there store that read every single &quot;Government issued&quot; RFID ID that passed by it&#039;s reader, it would get nothing more than a serial number.  This seriel number would not mean anything to that retailer unless they had access to the database that the information is stored.

Once again the FACT is RFID proximity tags (cards, tags, or the scary looking tiny glass tubes) DO NOT contain ANY personal information.

There is 100x more information gathered every time you used a credit or debit card.  Think about all the information you had to submit to the Credit Card company when you signed up for that card.  They in turn gathered even more info on you based on the SS# provided at the time of the application.  This information is routinly bought and sold by other Credit Card companies.

My IL id has a Magnetic stripe.  This is the same thing as RFID just a different delivery method.

&quot;Lothar of the Hill People&quot; strikes again!!!

If you don&#039;t want to be tracked???!!!  Turn off you cell phone, stop using your credit card, close your bank accounts, sell your house, sell your car.  In short, fall off the grid.  Nearly IMPOSSIBLE for most Americans.

Paranoia will distroy ya.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok,</p>
<p>A &#8220;large&#8221; RFID reader is 5&#8243; x 5&#8243; and the read range is as follows.</p>
<p>Typical Maximum* Read Range<br />
ProxCard® II card &#8211; up to 8” (20 cm)<br />
ISOProx® II card &#8211; up to 7” (17.5 cm)<br />
DuoProx® II card &#8211; up to 7” (17.5 cm)<br />
Smart ISOProx® II card &#8211; up to 7” (17.5 cm)<br />
Smart DuoProx® II card – up to 7” (17.5 cm)<br />
HID Proximity &amp; MIFARE® card – up to 7” (17.5<br />
ProxCard® Plus card &#8211; up to 3” (7.5 cm)<br />
ProxKey® II keyfob &#8211; up to 3” (7.5 cm)<br />
MicroProx® Tag – up to 4” (10.2 cm)<br />
ProxPass® Active Vehicle Tag – N/A<br />
*Depending on local installation conditions.</p>
<p>Where did I get this info?  From the industry learder in RFID technology HID. <a href="http://www.hidcorp.com/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.hidcorp.com/index.php</a></p>
<p>Read the product guides read the install instructions You can get a pretty good idea about what RFID is capable of.   The EZ Pass systems that are used on the toll roads have even bigger readers.   they are in excess of 36&#8243; x 36&#8243; to read less than 15 feet.</p>
<p>In order for some one to &#8220;track&#8221; you with this technology the reader that watched Rhode Island would have to be the size of Texas.  This isn&#8217;t thoery, it&#8217;s fact.  </p>
<p>Now that said if one had a sophisticated network of readers one could track the movements of a person.  If a retailer had an RFID reader at the front of there store that read every single &#8220;Government issued&#8221; RFID ID that passed by it&#8217;s reader, it would get nothing more than a serial number.  This seriel number would not mean anything to that retailer unless they had access to the database that the information is stored.</p>
<p>Once again the FACT is RFID proximity tags (cards, tags, or the scary looking tiny glass tubes) DO NOT contain ANY personal information.</p>
<p>There is 100x more information gathered every time you used a credit or debit card.  Think about all the information you had to submit to the Credit Card company when you signed up for that card.  They in turn gathered even more info on you based on the SS# provided at the time of the application.  This information is routinly bought and sold by other Credit Card companies.</p>
<p>My IL id has a Magnetic stripe.  This is the same thing as RFID just a different delivery method.</p>
<p>&#8220;Lothar of the Hill People&#8221; strikes again!!!</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t want to be tracked???!!!  Turn off you cell phone, stop using your credit card, close your bank accounts, sell your house, sell your car.  In short, fall off the grid.  Nearly IMPOSSIBLE for most Americans.</p>
<p>Paranoia will distroy ya.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-1196</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 03:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-1196</guid>
		<description>Wake up America!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wake up America!</p>
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		<title>By: Wonko</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-1110</link>
		<dc:creator>Wonko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-1110</guid>
		<description>It also sickens me to think that the whole Real ID scam will lead to a lot of &quot;Papers, please&quot; style checkpoints and such for domestic travel. Maybe not right away, but it is a slippery slope. 

It&#039;s a violation of our personal freedoms to endure such treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It also sickens me to think that the whole Real ID scam will lead to a lot of &#8220;Papers, please&#8221; style checkpoints and such for domestic travel. Maybe not right away, but it is a slippery slope. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a violation of our personal freedoms to endure such treatment.</p>
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		<title>By: Wonko</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-1109</link>
		<dc:creator>Wonko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-1109</guid>
		<description>Assuming that your Real ID has a unique number that reads the same for every scan, then anyone with a scanner can follow a person based on that ID number. They may not be able to pull any information from the database, but if they know the person, and the number of their Real ID, they can track them. 

Sort of how cookies let ad companies track where you go on the web to some extent. You may not be personally identifiable, but you are still able to be followed.

I&#039;m not so worried about black helicopters/government conspiracy/etc, I&#039;m more worried about companies using that to track movement and shopping habits on the sly. As you mentioned, if &quot;they&quot; want to track you specifically, there are better ways.

I agree, the danger is not as serious as some make it out to be, but it is still not without its flaws...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming that your Real ID has a unique number that reads the same for every scan, then anyone with a scanner can follow a person based on that ID number. They may not be able to pull any information from the database, but if they know the person, and the number of their Real ID, they can track them. </p>
<p>Sort of how cookies let ad companies track where you go on the web to some extent. You may not be personally identifiable, but you are still able to be followed.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so worried about black helicopters/government conspiracy/etc, I&#8217;m more worried about companies using that to track movement and shopping habits on the sly. As you mentioned, if &#8220;they&#8221; want to track you specifically, there are better ways.</p>
<p>I agree, the danger is not as serious as some make it out to be, but it is still not without its flaws&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Hubcap</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-1106</link>
		<dc:creator>Hubcap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-1106</guid>
		<description>And the IWR wasn&#039;t an authorization for war, and FISA was not going to be used on domestic telco traffic. Riiiight.

In the hands of a more trustworthy government, your point may be valid, regarding RFID technology. But these days we cannot even start down the slippey slope.

Moreover, a driver&#039;s license has become less of a certification of my ability to operate a motor vehicle and more of a defacto ID card.

That I believe is a problem and the overreaching intention of the implementation of things like RFID-embeded licences and passports is to track and limit our freedom to travel.

Make no mistake; the real &quot;freedom haters&quot; sit in the White House and the halls of Congress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the IWR wasn&#8217;t an authorization for war, and FISA was not going to be used on domestic telco traffic. Riiiight.</p>
<p>In the hands of a more trustworthy government, your point may be valid, regarding RFID technology. But these days we cannot even start down the slippey slope.</p>
<p>Moreover, a driver&#8217;s license has become less of a certification of my ability to operate a motor vehicle and more of a defacto ID card.</p>
<p>That I believe is a problem and the overreaching intention of the implementation of things like RFID-embeded licences and passports is to track and limit our freedom to travel.</p>
<p>Make no mistake; the real &#8220;freedom haters&#8221; sit in the White House and the halls of Congress.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Michels</title>
		<link>http://blog.motorists.org/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/comment-page-1/#comment-1102</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Michels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorists.org/blog/technology/it-always-starts-as-a-choice/#comment-1102</guid>
		<description>RFID technology does not do some of the things suggested.  I work with it on a daily basis in the security industry.   The &quot;chip&quot; is nothing more than an encoded serial number.  Without access to the database it&#039;s linked to it would mean ABSOLUTELY nothing.
It has to be scanned by the right scanner hooked up to the right database to do anything at all.

I hate to say it...  but this is not the answer.  Biometrics is the only true security.  Pin based, mag stripe, prox cards(RFID), mechanical keys can all be shared or handed off to another person.  Hand scan, fingerprint scan, Biometrics in general are the future.   I may sound like a quack now but eventually I&#039;ll be right.

As far as this being a violation of privacy???  I don&#039;t see it that way.   This is really just a step toward making it harder to fake an ID.  Personally I would like to see people with expired student Visas get caught before they do damage, like the 911 hijackers who all got into the US LEGALLY.

Don&#039;t be afraid of RFID.  it&#039;s not going to control your minds.  Most people don&#039;t turn off the GPS feature on their cell phones.  That is how &quot;they&quot; would track you if &quot;they&quot; wanted to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RFID technology does not do some of the things suggested.  I work with it on a daily basis in the security industry.   The &#8220;chip&#8221; is nothing more than an encoded serial number.  Without access to the database it&#8217;s linked to it would mean ABSOLUTELY nothing.<br />
It has to be scanned by the right scanner hooked up to the right database to do anything at all.</p>
<p>I hate to say it&#8230;  but this is not the answer.  Biometrics is the only true security.  Pin based, mag stripe, prox cards(RFID), mechanical keys can all be shared or handed off to another person.  Hand scan, fingerprint scan, Biometrics in general are the future.   I may sound like a quack now but eventually I&#8217;ll be right.</p>
<p>As far as this being a violation of privacy???  I don&#8217;t see it that way.   This is really just a step toward making it harder to fake an ID.  Personally I would like to see people with expired student Visas get caught before they do damage, like the 911 hijackers who all got into the US LEGALLY.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be afraid of RFID.  it&#8217;s not going to control your minds.  Most people don&#8217;t turn off the GPS feature on their cell phones.  That is how &#8220;they&#8221; would track you if &#8220;they&#8221; wanted to.</p>
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