I’ve been a NMA member for many years. So on a couple occasions in the past I’ve had my name and address circulated around to state members, with only luke warm reception. If you can’t get members of your own organization, who’s supposed to be interested in this stuff, interested then who in hell can you get! I also managed to get a bill on traffic ticket quota’s introduced into the state house. The meager excuse they used to reject it, was obvious what happened. The Municipal League squished it like a bug. I’ve been told by several legislators that the Municipal League has been responsible for traffic reform failures in the past. So, I’ve come to appreciate them about as much as NHTSA. I believe nearly every state has a Municipal League which is a little known group in our state. They swing an enormous amount of weight in the state legislature. It should be no surprise that they spend a good part of their time interfacing with state and federal policy makers. If you mention Municipal League to the average citizen, they’ve never heard of them. This group runs a stealth operation to be sure. And then to top that off we have sections of the state that have their own local district councils. In the northeastern part of Oklahoma we have INCOG (Indian Nations Council of Governments). While it is not their sole function, again they also have a lobbying arm of their organization. I won’t mention the LEO organizations that also play a part. The vast majority of citizens don’t realize the number and sophistication of these groups. It’s only over time that I’ve learned about them. Most of the laws that allow the municipal coffers to grow with revenue were passed years if not decades ago. Municipalities have just learned how to exploit them better. As you well know, advances in technology has only worsened the problem for the driving public while improved the situation for municipalities.

Again James is quite correct when he states that the implementation of the 55 mph NMSL probably taught many municipalities the value of a aggressive traffic control program. Thanks Pres. Nixon….you crook. That’s particularly true of smaller municipalities. We know for a fact that there are small municipalities that exist economically solely on traffic citations, mostly speeding tickets. Further, in smaller, poorer, rural municipalities law enforcement may provide additional jobs which can have an impact on the unemployment rate. Some of these communities lie near major state and Interstate thoughfares. Many years ago they almost dried up and disappeared when they were bypassed by the Interstate system. Then they discovered they could reaching out and annex these “pots of gold”. Now the city coffers have never been in better shape. Even larger municipalities have discovered that revenue from traffic citations are a nice little addition to their budget. As you well know, although technology has made our vehicles safer it has equally played an increasing role in catching drivers, especially speeding. So, as I reiterate, at least in this state the wrong laws are being enforced for the wrong reasons. It’s undeniable.

How we have arrived at this juncture probably would be a good subject for a book. But the direction we’ve allowed government to take pertaining to traffic control violates some of the basic premises of honesty and integrity in government. We’ve gone to great lengths in this country to keep money out of our justice system. We’ve gone to great lengths in this county to keep conflicts of interest out of our justice system. We know historically that both these forces lead to corruption. While we completely and aggressively reject these forces under any other circumstance, we’ve allowed governments to embrace them. You could expect this in a third world county but in the good ‘ole USA? How we’ve allowed this to happen I believe is a perfect example of citizens (driving public) staying out of the process and we’re paying for it now….literally.

As for speed traps and talking to the LEO bosses, they’ve got a quota to meet. I doubt that a single citizen will change that. I used be on a first name basis with some of the council members in my town. In fact the mayor was booted out of office by a rogue group that managed to get elected. My neighbor and I run a guy from our addition for council member (he won). The former mayor was running to regain his council seat so we kinda ran the two together when we placed signs and did door to door campaigning. He and the city manager also got kicked out because this rogue group didn’t like him either. At that time both of them told several of us about police abuse in our town…..this coming straight from people in the know! Ya, I’ve dabbled and rubbed elbows with politicians a little. I’ve seen how police activity can get distorted by the zest for revenue and my town is not NEAR as bad as many others we have in this state as James has eluded to many times. I will say however that the police as well as the town has matured a lot in recent years due to a healthy dose of growth.

I few years ago I noted the local police running a speed trap on a pretty regular basis in this one hiding spot along a road not far from my residence. So I decide to see what was behind it. Give it a fair assessment and see if in fact there was really a basis for this aggressive enforcement. I contacted the county engineer who printed out the records from the DPS computer database, for the four mile section of road in question. Even I was surprised. The 60 or so records that I received, I believe something like only 3 accidents were attributed to actual speeding (moving beyond the posted speed limit). Most were intersection accidents, a few driving to fast for conditions and some for weather. This small percentage of accidents caused by actual speeding seems to hold true with more recent statistics from other states. Oh, and I’m sure we have no Community Traffic Safety Team.

I’ve looked at traffic control for the better part of 30 years. James claims closer to 50. I used to read police magazines at the local library. I have several piles of cut outs and excepts from all kinds of print media from over the years about traffic control. The Internet and use of files have made physical piles of paper obsolete. Some of us are NOT talking out the sides of our mouth as some claim. None of us may have it exactly right but collectively I believe we get damn close. Speaking of name calling; a guy who is passing himself as a former LEO, I direct you to; http://www.motorists.org/blog/speed-traps/the-worst-speed-trap-cities-in-the-united-states/ and a guy posting as Gail Minks on Feb 22, 2008. Just as a boxer starts grasping for punches when he starts losing the fight so it is that when a poster starts losing a debate they start calling names.

I had a former motor partner that would do speed enforcement on a roadway that we had seen few if any crashes there. I mentioned that in casual conversation to my boss one day and we looked into the numbers. There weren’t too many reasons to devote as much time as he did there. So see, there are traffic cops on your side, you just didn’t know it.

I think my biggest issue is that, which obviously you agree with me on, there is no reasonable way we can do away with speed limits. Raise them, yeah, sh-tcan them, no way! As far as the education part goes, we do a lot for our community. The sheriff’s office has an aggressive driving program. They do speeches at the high schools and they even bring out a crashed car on a trailer to show the kids how “street racing” can really end. The car came from a family that lost their child in a stupid act. The kid was a good kid, he just a made a stupid kid mistake that ended in the loss of four innocent lives. As far as me, I do take them time to speak with people and I treat people the way I would want someone to treat my elderly parents. I don’t belittle people and I explain the reason for me doing my job. For the most part, people listen and understand, however some are just name calling a-sholes!

In fact just the other day, on the day that my supervisor was doing my yearly evaluation, I received a letter from a driver I stopped for a red light violation. The driver was totally impressed that I took the time to speak to him about the danger he placed himself in. You see, he stopped near the light but past the stop bar, well past the stop bar, and out into the big intersection. He was on the phone at the time and didn’t realize he was out so far that he was blocking another lane. I asked him what would have happened if another inattentive driver had happened through that same intersection just then. In the end he understood the reason for my efforts to reduce crashes, thereby reducing injuries and saving insurance rates.

Find out if your community has a Community Traffic Safety Team, if they do, then join, if they don’t, recommend that they start one, then join. All I ask, is that you don’t stereotype us. I think it’s always been odd that people who accuse the cops of stereotyping typically stereotype the cops. Go figure??

Further, you may have me mixed up with someone else using the term Nazi or other similar terms for LEO’s. I try to limit my name calling of LEO’s because it’s not very constructive. In my case I like the word “resent” better then hate. I have been known to use the term Nazi towards NHTSA, MADD and a variety of similar agencies because it’s the strongest word I can think of without resorting to common four letter words, you know what I mean. I make no apologies for that. That’s exactly what they are. I watch them in front of congress giving their spin for tougher enforcement and more laws. They spin the data the way it suits them. I watch until I get nauseated. MADD isn’t any better. NHTSA feeds at the public trough so naturally they suggest this garbage to justify their existence. NHTSA is a government agency that we could certainly close. We have too many agencies and organizations that have nothing better to do then set around thinking up more ways to engage law enforcement and the driving public…with the drivers coming up on the usual short end. Primarily because of speed enforcement, we can’t even get the laws already on the books, that ACTUALLY affect the accident rate, enforced. It’s crazy. Sometimes I have to pinch myself to see if this is a fairytale but then the red flashing lights awaken me to reality.

Also your getting Mr. Young and I mixed up so I need to clarify. He suggests no speed limits, not me. I know what he speaks of and in theory I agree but I can’t see it under current circumstances. It’s too problematic. I’m sure he and I could handle it quite handily. I know many other mature drivers that could also handle the lack of speed limits. But from my perspective, we still have too many drivers out there for a whole variety of reasons that could not handle the absence of speed limits. In Germany where there are roads with no speed limits, I assure you they don’t get their drivers license out of a box of Post Toasties like around here. The German mentality of excellence is applied to driving as well. But I totally agree that drivers should focus on driving as conditions permit. I don’t want to speak for him but I believe that’s the jest of My. Youngs message. Unfortunately, the obsession with speed limits around here, drivers get the idea that as long as they stay within the speed limit, they can do anything they want without consequences. It’s counterintuitive to tell drivers you should drive according to conditions and the turn around and add….until you move beyond the velocity of those 2 numbers on a sign. A sign that some traffic engineer in his ivory tower catering to non pragmatic principles has set. Or worse, some speed limits are set by local municipal city councils, by a show of hands. I’ve seen it.

Hell, we don’t even have a decent drivers education program in this state of Oklahoma. My opinion is that for Mr. Youngs idea of no speed limits to bare fruit, we must train young drivers to drive properly, preferably professionally. It’s gotta be embedded in they’re malleable brain. It’ll probably takes a couple years to do this in High School if we are serious about traffic safety. All these young drivers have a life time of driving ahead of them. Ima Safedriver, you above all people, should realize the value of this. These young drivers will be your “clients” for many years to come, until you retire and beyond and then they become some other cops clients. Why wouldn’t you want them to have the best we can offer. But believe it or not, drivers training doesn’t seem to be supported, to any great extent, in this state by LEO’s. A few years ago the AAA had a bill introduced in the state legislature that would have boosted funding for drivers education. It saw little support from law enforcement. I’m still scratching my head on that one. Consequently, the bill which did get signed by the governor, was a mere shadow of it’s original self.

I work on a large maintenance base for a major air carrier. James you know. We have over 7,000 employed there. I obviously don’t know everybody but over the 25 years I’ve gotten to know many good, intelligent workers and leaders. Leaders and co-workers who I’ve looked up to because of their pristine creditably. Some with a uncanny ability for the practical. Union, non-union doesn’t make any difference. After working closely for years with these people, traffic control eventually enters a conversation. Probably 9 out of 10 of these people resent LEO’s, some worse then I, because of what they view as traffic control excesses….abuses.
We are defiantly not kids anymore. Many of us are now looking to retirement. James and I are in our early ’60s. I know a 80+ year old in near Stringtown, OK who has been a bulldog on speed traps. He’s a WWII vet, a former maritime mariner, truck driver. A guy with a wealth of worldly experience. He knows speed traps, he lives near several small towns with a BIG speed trap reputation as James so eluded too. So it beckons the question; why do all these people resent LEO’s in this state? One of my co-workers is a lifelong bachelor in mid ’50’s who is a avid conservative, wouldn’t miss a Russ Limbach show and watches Fox news shows. A guy who would NEVER normally break a law….but he does drive over the speed limit, according to conditions, as I do. Many of us are Vietnam era veterans. All these people are mature, intelligent (we have to be for our jobs) individuals. Can you please tell me why nearly ALL these good people resent traffic enforcement? I have a sense that not all these good people can be wrong. I know the next question your going to ask? I’ve asked it myself many times. Why aren’t these good people out there trying to get the laws changed.

A book could probably be written about this but, to some extent, I believe it’s the old adage “you can’t fight city hall”. I also believe it’s part of a bigger problem which seems to be getting worse. Citizens have decided to put their government on autopilot and let it run on it’s own accord without any guidance from it’s citizens. It’s a dead end because a working, vigorous democracy REQUIRES citizens to play an important part. Hell, on a good presidential election your lucky to get a 50 percent turnout (we might this year). And then it goes down hill from there. I’ve never believed it enough just to go vote. These public officials NEED our input. Have you ever pulled a Jay Leno “street walking” and asked the average citizen who their state senator or representative is? I think you know what I’m talking about. How in the hell are you going to participate when you don’t even know who your public officials are? Did we quit teaching civics and history in our public education system? How can people (citizens) participate when they don’t even understand the inner workings of their government? It shouldn’t surprise anybody why traffic enforcement has deteriorated to the level we see it today. Because of our lack of participation there’s a whole community of yes, traffic safety Nazis, out there singing for more and more enforcement, new laws, and the application of new technology. So, it’s a hell’va sad situation. I guess what I’m saying is that the blame for this sad mess doesn’t lie solely on law enforcement. I’m as upset at the driving public as I am at law enforcement.
But, some of us just won’t buy into the hopelessness of it. If everyday I drive to work I wasn’t constantly reminded of the absurdity of the situation, which keeps my dandruff continuously stirred up. None of us were born resenting law enforcement, we learned “under fire” so-to-speak. We became this way because of what’s going on out on our streets and highways that defy logic of any kind. You may write us off (James, I and others who debate this) as larks but ….we are not going away. We would be negligent as good citizens if we did.

There are enough “amateur” agencies out there who do stop for anything over. Remember, those non-trained, non-POST-certified, non-HS graduates have just as much authority as you do to extract money from motorists, which is their job. Many of them – Big Cabin, Stingtown, Caney, Moffitt, Luther, Hulbert, e.g., — do no other law enforcement at all, leaving it for the county sheriffs.

Recently, on another forum, an officer from Colorado (I think) said his SOP’s prohibited from driving at the posted speed limit on highways. All of us let him know how stupid that was and he promised to take the postings back to his admin. He said that they didn’t want their officers “leading a parade” down the highway.

In the end, I think we can agree on one thing, much differently I would say that for sure (LOL). That being, we do want the roadways to be safer for all who use them. I agree that all the lane changes make things treacherous and that having a structure of lane discipline is WAY safer. BUT!! Can I assume that both Joe and Mr. Young are mature adults and that your behavior with “no speed limits” would be that of a “mature responsible adult”. Need I remind you that we let the stupid and teenagers drive in this country? Telling some testosterone driven 17 year old, with girlfriend in tote, driving his Roush Mustang that way too rich mommy and daddy bought him as his first car at 16, to be responsible is tantamount to telling Osama Bin Laden to be rational! LOL!

You, having no speed limit at 11 pm on a rainy night on some poorly lite curvy mountain road, would be doing 50 or 55, something very rational. The dumbass, the standard client, is doing 95 because he just finished this statement to his buddy, “Hey, watch this!”.

Remember, what you guys are forgetting is that’s what we as LE have to deal with 95% of the time. If everyday, every time you dealt with a “client”, you had to deal with stereotypical biases that they have about you, (AND YEAH! DAMN IT! If I hear one more F’n Dunkin’ Donut joke! Some of which you two took part in with the Nazi type comments, etc.) you’d have a much more callused view of society too. Remember that every one hates the cops, until you need us! North Hollywood shoot out ring a bell? How many SOB’s were on that scene that day? How glued to the set were you waiting to catch some horrible glimpse of reality? No one ever calls us up to tell us that they’ve had a great day! They call us to tell us that they left their pocketbook sitting on the front seat of their convertible, with top down I might add, while they parked in the FIRE ZONE so that they could pick up their dry cleaning, and some bad man must have taken my handbag! Then they get pissed at us when we look less than interested because we didn’t “call out the dragnet” to unlawfully search every black male within a 20 block radius. Need I say more?

In the end, even after all those horrible insults, the cop that writes you a ticket today, WITHOUT QUESTION!!!, would risk his life by running into a hail of machine gun fire to save YOU tomorrow! For that, we get called NAZI! PIG! RACIST! MOTHER F’er! Who cares if a cop dies?? Meanwhile, a spouse, a child, a parent or a sibling sure does!

I will be leaving for work this afternoon (probably right after this post) and I can assure you, there will be a zillion drivers on our 6 lane expressway heading North, (Hwy 169, for your reference James) no enforcement of laws that would prevent rear end collisions. Left lane hogs will be blocking and upsetting lane discipline therefore upsetting the smooth flow of traffic. Drivers trying to get around these self centered individuals. As any LEO should know that’s dangerous because of all the lane changes. A road rage incident is always a possibility too. Pretty much like driving in a zoo.
There will most likely be a unmarked vehicle out there writing speeding tickets for 5 to 10 over. Then, like yesterday, there was a state trooper which passed me about 80 mph (65 zone), no lights, no siren. Didn’t appear to otherwise be in a hurry. It’s common around here. We’ve got to get the cops around here to set an example. That would be a good start. I’m certainly not the only one around here seeing the problem; read http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7654&whichpage=1
For now, gotta go to work.

The issue is the psychotic obsession with speeding to the virtual exclusion of other code sections, at least until you need them or they are secondary or tertiary (pronounced “piling on”). It is nigh on impossible to determine the distribution of citations by code section because such information is treated as proprietary by the agencies and any citizen who asks to see a public record must have criminal intent.

However, in 2002(?) the Texas DPS had to respond to a federal court regarding racial profiling and in their report disclosed that the DPS had written just over 1,000,000 speeding citations the test (prior?) year. All other violations combined were ~475,000. In harsher terms, speed too fast for conditions is responsible for something less than 10% of all crashes, yet consumes 67% of enforcement effort. What a waste of public resources.

{ . . .to deliver the horrible notice death message to someone who loved that driver. It would happen. Whether you choose to think that or not, and I’m not referring to a raised limit, but NO speed limits.}

Crashes are going to happen but we are getting quite good at reducing their frequency and their severity. Speed limits do not and cannot affect this frequency but that is something that the enforcement world just refuses to recognize.

Since we have ruled out efficacy as an explanation for this behavior, it once again drives us right back to the best remaining explanation, the factor that correlates more closely than anything else: $100 billion a year in fines.