Another Ticket Camera Success Story
By James Baxter, NMA President
The report is in from Baytown, TX, on the results of the city’s red light ticket camera program.
The camera proponents are going to be hard pressed to lavish praise on the results:
- 40 percent increase in total accidents
- 75 percent increase in injury accidents
- 37 percent increase in “t-bone” right angle crashes
- 83 percent increase in rear-end collisions
These disastrous results should really be no surprise. Independent studies (no financial interest) of the automated intersection ticketing programs have repeatedly shown an increase in rear- end collisions, more injuries, and contrary to the claims of ticket camera proponents, no reduction in right-angle crashes.
But, tomorrow, just as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west there will be a government official or clueless reporter making the claim that red light cameras improve traffic safety.
Baytown officials are being presented with a petition to put ticket cameras to a vote in November.
If these officials are really concerned about the well-being of their constituents they won’t wait until November to put the cameras down the road.
If they do wait until November, the voters would be well served to treat incumbent officials as they do the red light camera program and put them down the road too.
M1, you wanted the facts and here they are. These are the exact reports that this article is talking about. The only problem is, the numbers shown in the article above are way off. The actual reports show a huge benefit of red light cameras. Look at the facts. It looks like the article is written off of information from the newspaper.com and they it seems make things up on a regular basis. It is fun reading their articles and then going to see the real facts.
ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/trf/red_light/2009_post/baytown_post.pdf
ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/trf/red_light/2009_pre/baytown_pre.pdf http://www.dot.state.tx.us/safety/red_light_repor… http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/04-alternati…
M1, you wanted the facts and here they are. These are the exact reports that this article is talking about. The only problem is, the numbers shown in the article above are way off. The actual reports show a huge benefit of red light cameras. Look at the facts. It looks like the article is written off of information from the newspaper.com and they it seems make things up on a regular basis. It is fun reading their articles and then going to see the real facts.
ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/trf/red_light/2009_pre/baytown_pre.pdf
ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/trf/red_light/2009_post/baytown_post.pdf http://www.dot.state.tx.us/safety/red_light_repor… http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/04-alternati…
The Insurance industry fund radar/photo radar for these towns/cites with one stipulation, they must produce tickets. This is win win for the insurance industries and the towns/cites. The towns/cites make free money from the tickets because the didn't purchase them and the insurance industries get to raise your insurance rates when one gets points from these tickets.
Jam, which state allows the records for these RLC tickets to show up on insurance reports? I know of non but you must have information that I have never seen and I have done a lot of reading on the subject. Are you saying that the insurance companies are saving a lot of money because of less accidents and lower claims? You are correct with that statement.
I would recommend doing some reading on the dot,state.tx.us.safety/red_light site. There is some good information about the actual statistics of the high number of people that speed up as they come to an intersection and also a high number that think it is fine to run a red light to save them time and so they do not have to stop when they should be. That is why red light cameras were started. it also works to a great extent at making many of those to stop when they should be.
I found this statistic actually from a site that is against red light cameras.
The city of Baytown has claimed that because of the cameras, accidents at camera locations have been reduced by 11%.
Where is the moderator of this blog? This JimSamsung is obviously Randy Reincarnate. If you compare their writings, it is eminently clear that those two are the one and the same. Can we please do something about this scourge?
Please provide your source(s) for others to see.
RLCs can make mistakes. RLCs can not stop inattentive and/or stupid driving.
http://www.youtube.com/v/6d6lt1x5xnw
@All
Have a safe Labor Day Weekend. Beware the Revenue Bears. ;-)
Very good M1. Your video and the guys calculations show that the guy in question was traveling at least 5mph over the limit. Why may I ask was he let off?
You are correct that RLC do not stop all stupid driving but it does help a lot. You said yourself that there are people that get into crashes because they are not paying attention at intersections. I can guarentee that a lot more of them will be paying attention after they get a few tickets that they have to pay. I also like the video clip that you showed. Was that an NMA member that put it out? They talked about cameras prevented the freedom to drive about? Did I hear that right? The only way that you can drive about is to run red lights? Your video that you showed was mostly about speed cameras. What does that have to do with RLC?
You talked about providing sources. Yes I would also like to see the sources for the information in this article. Maybe you can find that for me.
Baytown Car Accident Kills Three
, were killed on the early morning of September 30, 2009 on Bayway near Park in Baytown, Texas. An ABC News report stated that a vehicle traveling north on Bayway attempted to pass two other vehicles at a high rate of speed, according to police. Apparently, the vehicle went across both oncoming lanes of traffic before over-correcting and coming back across the roadway. The vehicle rolled over at least once and came to rest in a ditch on the roadway. The people in all three cars knew one another and Baytown Police are still investigating to get a better idea of what happened.
Speed has nothing to do with accidents or deaths?
Without knowing more data, it is difficult to form a valid conclusion.
From the information you provided:
"Apparently, the vehicle went across both oncoming lanes of traffic before over-correcting and coming back across the roadway."
It appears that the driver was careless and/or reckless in driving.
Speed probably contributed to the severity of the accident, but I do not think it was the primary cause of the accident.
If the driver drove in a safe manner, then this probably would not have happened.
M1, you may be right that speed causes no accidents or deaths. Do you have sources for that? Speed was not the cause of 3 deaths in this case? Maybe you can convince us that jumping out of an airplane without a parachute would not cause a probable death either because there have been a couple of people that survived such a jump. Most do not though from what I hear.
No. It wasn't speed that caused the accident, look at this line: "Apparently, the vehicle went across both oncoming lanes of traffic before over-correcting and coming back across the roadway." Just because the driver WAS "speeding" doesn't mean it caused the accident. The accident was caused by reckless driving. Simply going over an arbitrary number doesn't cause accidents. The actions of the driver, unrelated to speed caused the accident.
Why is it that people have major problems discerning the difference between driving over an artificial speed limit, and driving like an ass? Driving 100 mph while not signaling and cutting across 3 lanes back and forth, is not the same as casual driving 80 on an interstate highway designed for that speed.
I would like to see the true statistics on this. I did some searches and came across things like this. Funny how running a red light and speeding is what caused the deaths. I have no idea where they came up with the statistics for this article above.
According to an ABC news report, on Friday, October 16, 2009, at around 10:15 a.m. a major car accident occurred in Conroe, Texas at the intersection of FM 1314 (Porter Road) and Loop 336. Apparently a Mazda was traveling northbound on FM 1314 when a Dodge Ram 3500 pickup truck traveling east on Loop 336 ran a red light where the roads intersected. The Dodge pickup truck struck the side of the Mazda and pushed it into a Mercedes in the westbound lane of 336 waiting to turn onto FM 1314. A fourth vehicle was involved in the accident when the Mercedes was pushed into it. According to the police, witnesses say that the driver of the Dodge pickup truck, 18 year old ———–, was traveling at a high rate of speed.
Three were killed in the acccident. These things happen all the time and that is why they have red light cameras and stop people for speeding. They may need to do more rather than less.
@JimSamsung
"I would like to see the true statistics on this."
If you have valid data to present for others to review, then please present your valid data.
M1, I would also like to see the valid data from the statistics shown in this article. Can you find it for me?
You seem to assume that RLC's will stop people from running red lights or prevent bad and stupid drivers from running red lights and causing accidents. When will people learn that you cant prevent every tragedy. That's life. Life is random, life is tragic. Good things happen and bad things happen and you can never prevent all bad things from happening. RLC's are not going to prevent all accidents, just like drug laws don't prevent people from using drugs. It's illegal to kill people but yet people are still killing people. If only we had a camera on every corner in the US so no one would kill anyone. That's the argument you are using for RLC's. As if video surveillance and fines stop people from doing bad or disliked behavior.
Are you saying that we should not have any police or jails or give out any tickets? We can not stop them all so let them have at it? Maybe we can try that in your state and if things get a lot better then we can all follow. Let us know how it works out.
No, that is not what I am saying at all. I don't think anything I said should have made you assume that I don't want a police force. I'm saying cameras shouldn't be enforcing the law and that no matter how much enforcement, putting up a camera is not going to prevent things from happening. I'm arguing that if someone deserves to be ticketed then it should be by a trained police officer and points should be applied to their license. Not a $40 fine (speed cameras in MD) no points with a letter and a photograph that say's $40 please, 2 weeks after the fact. Also the MD law says preponderance of the evidence. Whatever happened to beyond a reasonable doubt and facing your accuser? These programs have failed and after people figure out where the camera is they slow down right before it and speed up as soon as they pass it. Alright those cameras sure do the trick huh? In fact I hope the gov't tracks every move I do. i hope they put a gps tracking device under my skin as well as video surveillance on every nook and cranny of the US so we know what everyone is doing all the time. cause after all it is all about safety an we can keep people from doing bad and illegal things. Then they can fine me jay walking with my photograph and fine $40 for that. Then they can fine me for throwing a banana onto the road when I'm driving with another photo in the mail asking for $40. Then they can take my picture when I piss on the golf course and get me for public indecency and another photo of me pissing and a $40 fine. Man Government cameras are great aren't they!
I would like to see the true statistics on this. I did some searches and came across things like this. Funny how running a red light and speeding is what caused the deaths. I have no idea where they came up with the statistics for this article above.
According to an ABC news report, on Friday, October 16, 2009, at around 10:15 a.m. a major car accident occurred in Conroe, Texas at the intersection of FM 1314 (Porter Road) and Loop 336. Apparently a Mazda was traveling northbound on FM 1314 when a Dodge Ram 3500 pickup truck traveling east on Loop 336 ran a red light where the roads intersected. The Dodge pickup truck struck the side of the Mazda and pushed it into a Mercedes in the westbound lane of 336 waiting to turn onto FM 1314. A fourth vehicle was involved in the accident when the Mercedes was pushed into it. According to the police, witnesses say that the driver of the Dodge pickup truck, 18 year old Casey McKinley, was traveling at a high rate of speed.
Three were killed in the acccident. These things happen all the time and that is why they have red light cameras and stop people for speeding. They may need to do more rather than less.
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