7 Ways To Shut Down A Speed Trap
Speed traps are often used by municipalities as a method of generating revenue to run the government. “Safety” is given as the excuse for running a speed trap, but the real reason boils down to money.
- The police department wants more money for equipment and salaries.
- The City wants more money to avoid raising taxes.
- Local residents and businesses often go along with speed traps because they reduce local taxes, and besides, they’re usually not the drivers who get the tickets anyway.
A “win win” situation for everybody in town, but not for the poor saps that suffer fines, points and insurance surcharges in the name of “safety.” However, any person, if persistent enough, can take meaningful action to eliminate the classic speed trap. There are multiple approaches to bringing public and private wrath down upon the perpetrators of speed traps.
1) Appeal To Local Business Owners
With sufficient prodding local businesses can be effective in lobbying for the end of community speed traps. One way to prompt this kind of lobbying is to convince business owners that the local speed trap is costing them money, or is about to cost them money.
This can be done by sending letters to local businesses and the chamber of commerce stating that you and anyone you can convince accordingly, will not be shopping in that community until the use of speed traps is discontinued.
2) Get The Attention Of The Local Media
Letters should be sent to the local newspapers, radio and TV stations, and to the mayor or any other head of the government that sponsors the speed trap.
The combination of economic sanctions (loss of business) and embarrassment of local officials may generate pressure to eliminate the speed trap, or at least reduce its most abusive characteristics.
3) Purchase Small Advertisements In The Paper
If the media ignores the story, you can still get the word out in other ways. To add a little momentum to your efforts you may want to purchase small ads in surrounding community newspapers that identify the speed trap and demand that things change.
4) Find Other Speed Trap Victims To Join The Cause
Ask around the area and find other speed trap victims. The trap has taken money out of their pockets so it won’t be hard to convince them to join the effort. If you generate some additional interest and help, the media and local officials will start to take you more seriously.
5) Request A Traffic Engineering Study
If a local village or city is using a state or county highway as a speed trap you may be able to provoke the state or county officials sufficiently to have them force the end of the speed trap. For example, if the speed limit is severely under-posted you can request a copy of the traffic engineering study that sanctioned such a low speed limit.
You can use a “public information request” or “freedom of information request” to force the release of this study, if the public agency won’t willingly release it. More often than not, no such study exists.
There are exceptions, but all states require a traffic engineering study to support an unusual or abnormally low speed limit. Even if a traffic engineering study exists, it may not support the speed limit posted by the local unit of government.
6) Talk To Your Elected Officials
All elected officials give lip service to the belief that underhanded and exploitative speed enforcement should not be used as a means to extort money from honest responsible citizens. It’s fair game to ask them to put substance behind their words. You have every right to ask your state legislators to pass a law that will reduce, if not eliminate the abuses common to speed traps.
Here are some approaches you can suggest to your state senator or representative:
- Require that any posted speed limit that differs from the standard speed limit for a given type of road or highway be supported by a legitimate traffic engineering study that determines the 85th percentile speed of free flowing unimpeded traffic.
- Establish a limit on the percent of local revenues that any community can generate through traffic fines. Any local unit of government that is generating more than 10% to 20% of its total revenue from fines is abusing traffic enforcement for revenue enhancement purposes.
- Require that a high percentage (75 %) of all traffic fines and related costs be transferred to an unrelated state fund, e.g. public education, emergency relief, or public library aids.
- Prohibit the use of electronic speed measurement devices to enforce speed limits that have not been determined through the use of an official traffic engineering study.
- Require specific and proper training for any person using electronic devices for speed enforcement purposes.
- Provide that any motorist charged with a traffic violation has the automatic right for a change of venue to a court of record (from a local administrative or municipal court).
- Prohibit the use of electronic speed measurement devices to clock vehicles within 100 yards of a speed limit sign that reduces the speed limit.
By giving your legislator concrete and realistic suggestions you will have made it difficult for him or her to just ignore your request. Getting a bill drafted and introduced is still a long way from getting it passed into law, but it sure is a good start in the right direction.
7) Challenge Your Speed Trap Ticket In Court
On a very personal and individual level there is yet another way to challenge and oppose speed traps.
If you’re caught in a speed trap, you need to challenge your speeding ticket in court. Just paying the ticket to avoid the hassle will only perpetuate the system by giving the municipality exactly what it wants and expects: your money. Challenge your ticket in court with the full knowledge that you may have to appeal your conviction to a higher, more legitimate court. This accomplishes a variety of objectives:
- You force the operators of the speed trap to take their time and money to prosecute you.
- If you are well prepared, a competent judge may decide to formally chastise the speed trap operators, especially if they have violated an existing state law.
- Finally, as a reward for your hard work, there’s a good chance the charges against you will be dismissed.
This article was adapted from information on the NMA’s speed trap registry website, www.speedtrap.org, a listing of speed traps submitted by drivers across the country.
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“Newton’s Law writes: {Surely you are not that dumb, it’s not the vehicles that are unsafe, it’s the individuals that are operating these vehicles.}
Nonsense. We have spent trillions on making our vehicles and our roadways safer at ever higher speeds because there is an economic value in higher speeds. The purpose of divided, limited-access highways was to make faster travel possible.”
I don’t understand, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing, I never said anything about vehicles, never. I don’t care how many trillions of dollars we have spent or will spend on the vehicles again “it’s not the vehicles that are unsafe, it’s the individuals that are operating these vehicles”.
I agree vehicles are much safer than they were 10 even 5 years ago, but we as individuals are still human. We make mistakes, we don’t pay attention at times, we try eating and driving at the same time. At high speeds those simple mistakes can cost you, they can mean the difference between recovering your vehicle from running off the road to hitting that Guard Rail. But the sad part, the really heart breaking part of your whole argument is, their mistakes can and do cost me and my family as I travel those same streets and highways.
“Engineers and scientists operate under the assumption that drivers will not intentionally endanger themselves beyond some personal level, attained through their own internal calculus.”
But drivers do, they drive their vehicles at a high rate of speed, in school zones, in heavy traffic, and in terrible weather. You can assume that they want but in reality we both know they will. And you are wrong, Engineers and scientists operate under the assumption that drivers “will” endanger themselves, thus the development of Anti-lock Brakes, Air Bags, etc.
You jump up and down and say do away with speed limit, we did in Montana and it worked great, make people responsible. But a lot of people are not responsible, they are the same ones that will be doing 98 mph while talking on their cell phone, they are the same ones that will be combing their hair or eating while doing 85 mph in a rain storm.
How about that 16 year old, just got his license, please explain to me how responsible he is with 6,000 pounds of unlimited speed underneath his ass and a feeling of invincibility and the need, the desire to show off to his friends.
I find it amusing that individuals agree with you and say “Damn the Speed Limit” get them cell phone talkers, but if we do away with the speed limit you have only produced a 100 mph cell phone talker.
One last thing, please help me out, you stated “there is an economic value in higher speeds”…What is the economic value??…other then me getting my dumb ass to work without being 5 minutes late and not getting into trouble.
I just wanted to say that I have been reading these NMA blogs over the last 2 days and am really impressed with James and Joe- you guys rock! You both know your stuff and present very logical and scientific arguments. Kudos to you guys for fighting the good fight!
I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and will add that, unfortunately, the situation here is as bad if not worse than you describe for many US cities or municipalities. Despite the fact that we are an oil-rich province with a 17 billion dollar surplus, this city has to be one of the worse in Canada for over the top traffic enforcement – mainly speed traps (in the truest sense of the word), approx 50 red light cameras set up in the city, and photo radar everywhere(especially in areas where is is very easy to exceed the posted limit). It’s truly sad, and as you mention, people just bend over and pay these ridiculous fines. I wish the cops on traffic duty would at least do something useful by setting up in playground zones or stopping distracted drivers on cell phones, but instead they always hide behind poles or bushes in areas where it is downhill, open road ahead, no danger to children or pedestrians, where the limit changes from 70km/hr to 50km/hr; ie places where they know they can maximize profit. Calgary is already one of the most expensive cities in Canada to live in, so I resent this extra “road tax” just for the sake of even more revenue. Greed, greed, greed…
I myself have been driving for about 25 years, with maybe a half dozen traffic violations (all speeding tickets) in that time, and 1 speeding ticket in the last 8 years. None of those was for dangerous driving in any sense of the word- all for 10-30km/hr (6-18mph) over the posted limit on open stetches of roadway. Not bad for a guy that has been driving a shiny red sports car for the past 16 years- yes, it’s still shiny and well looked after:) I have simply paid all the previous fines but have decided from this day forward I will plead not guilty to all future offences and have my day in court. It will only be a matter of time, I’m sure, since I do travel (safely) above the posted limits and these guys are hiding everywhere. By fighting the tickets, at least I feel I can make the city pay if I’m going to have to. If everybody fought their tickets and tied up the court system that would send out a fairly strong message. Alternatively, I really like the idea of the fine going to a scholarship or charity instead of to the police and the city.
James and Joe- do you know if there is an organization similar to the NMA in Canada, or do you have any Canadian members?
6/28/08 Newtons Law:
You need to get a grip! Speed doesn’t kill. Its the impact and velocity of a sudden unforeseen stop. Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time. 45 mph his not agreat amount of speed and $123.50 for exceeding it by 3 mph is extortion when traveling downhill and simply removing your eyes from the speedometer for a few seconds to try and maintain order with three children on a clear four lane highway. My daughter went to court to contest it in an alleged speedtrap town and and the judge did not even let her finish her plea. He interupted her plea and asked her if she was going 48 when the officer pulled her over and she answered,”yes but ” and he cited $123.50, next case before she could finish her statement.The same township cited her later in another matter for failure to carry proper insurance papers while driving. Another day, another dollars fine. Why don’t the police just park at the beginning of their jurisdictions and collect the fees before the chase. It would save the taxpayers immeasurable amounts of money filling cruiser gasoline tanks.
Newton’s Law writes: {Surely you are not that dumb, it’s not the vehicles that are unsafe, it’s the individuals that are operating these vehicles.}
Nonsense. We have spent trillions on making our vehicles and our roadways safer at ever higher speeds because there is an economic value in higher speeds. The purpose of divided, limited-access highways was to make faster travel possible.
Despite all the criticism of drivers – primarily because “drivers” as a group cannot fight back, allowing you to attack an unarmed constituency – the performance of drivers has been very good. Engineers and scientists operate under the assumption that drivers will not intentionally endanger themselves beyond some personal level, attained through their own internal calculus. Then, along comes the law, those who enforce the law and those who benefit from such enforcement to tell us, “No, drivers are too stupid to be allowed to think and decide for themselves and need the wisdom of others to guide them.”
I reject your notion and offer two pieces of evidence. First, in the relatively limited experiment that we call post-NMSL Montana, speed limits were rescinded and drivers took it on themselves to behave with well-reasoned speeds, appropriate to the circumstances. Montana LE didn’t like this, the courts disagreed with LE, siding with the motorists, so the Montana legislature decided, “Drivers are too stupid to be allowed to think and decide for themselves and need our wisdom to guide them,” and so installed a 75 mph limit. Almost immediately, the fatality rate rose. So much for the wisdom of the legislature.
Second, on a far larger demographic scale, the entire census of ALL fatal and major injury crashes, it spears that those stupid drivers are performing at an elevated level, as the fatality-, injury-, and crash-rates are all at all-time lows.
Joe,
If I hit that deer at 45 mph…you CAN come along and say “Good thing your ass wasn’t going 70 mph.
“If you want to live a perfectly safe life don’t drive because vehicles are inherently unsafe as soon as they start to move.”
Surely you are not that dumb, it’s not the vehicles that are unsafe, it’s the individuals that are operating these vehicles.
What do you purpose Joe? That we raise the posted speed limit, any speed limit that you or anybody else feels is appropriate for that stretch of road is NOT going to be followed, people don’t drive the posted speed limit, they drive 10 or 15 miles OVER the posted speed limit. Take a look next time you drive down the road or interstate, drive exactly the speed limit and see how many cars pass you. I know how about we have no posted speed limit, people can drive any speed they want as long as they feel safe, that would be great, let people use their common sense…well for the response to that statement, I will refer to a quote from you…
“Common sense” is probably not the correct phrase because I find that to mean different things to different people.
Exactly, some people have it, a lot don’t. Letting people drive at a speed they feel safe and using their common sense would be a disaster.
I personally don’t care if you or anybody else on this site does 100 mph down the interstate, as long as your dumb ass doesn’t hit me. I really could care less when you hit that concrete barrier or bridge, glad you didn’t hit me or anyone else.
And please, when you do decide to drive 100 mph…don’t cry when the police stop you and give you a ticket, please don’t make excuses about driving while black, driving while Asian, I was the last car, etc.
You bitch about the police, you speed that is your choice, police stop you, that is their job, police give you a ticket, that is their choice, pay that attorney $200.00 dollars an hour to “help” you plead guilty and then pay the insurance company. If you want to bitch about something, bitch about that lawyer and insurance company taking your money. They cost you alot more than that ticket…and it was your “choice” to speed.
If you eat crackers in your bed, sleep with the crumbs.
For my satisfaction, I’ll just look at “speed traps” like Karma. If the little guy who wrote me(last in line of 4 vehicles, all speeding, probably)did it legitimately for “safety”, then he should sleep fine at night. But, if he got a chubby for writing me after 25years of NEVER having a moving violation (I remained respectful and pleasant throughout the contact), then he’ll pay for his misgivings in the long run….somehow, someway.
James, another member of the anti-destination league. Sir, if you hit a deer at 45 mph I can come along and say that you should have been driving 35 mph because using your mindset it would be safer…right? Then I can also say that 25 mph would be even safer. I can do this until we get to zero mph. You say that’s not practical. Neither are slow speed limits. Speed limits must be set according to proven engineering standards such as the 85 percentile for the safest travel. There is no perfectly safe speed.
If you want to live a perfectly safe life don’t drive because vehicles are inherently unsafe as soon as they start to move. In their driveway, family members have been known to drive over/back over a unseen, young family member at perhaps less then 5 mph or less. In my view speed limits are at best a compromise between safety and the need for to expedite travel.
The example you eluded too is best handled by driving “according to conditions” which you should always be doing. Driving at or under the speed limit does not keep you safe, driving according to conditions will keep you safer. If you feel safer driving 45 mph then do it, just stay in the far right hand lane if your on a major, multi-lane highway. Further, there are almost no urban roads that I commonly drive that are even 45 mph. I won’t say it doesn’t happen but in the 40 plus years of driving I have never seen a deer on a major expressway where speeds of 65 or 70 mph are common. And would you rather be riding a bus 30 miles at 5 mph or 55 mph?
“Common sense” is probably not the correct phrase because I find that to mean different things to different people.
Newton’s Law, you forgot to add that it was in a school zone and that there was alcohol nearby. Real common sense says to not hit the tree in the first place.
You know, I have just been reading all these posts and keep reading over and over again “Speed doesn’t kill”
But then I started thinking…Now I’m not as educated as all you speed engineers and all you weekend experts of the law but…
If I swerve to avoid a deer in the road and hit a tree at about 45 mph that will probably hurt…
If I swerve to avoid a deer and hit that same tree at about 75 mph this time…that will probably hurt a lot more…
In other words…I will break it down for you experts…the faster I am going when I hit that tree..the harder I will hit that tree…and the more violent that sudden stop will be…Let me break it down for the engineers…would you rather have a city bus hit you at 5 mph or 55 mph…??
I would like to add that I’m not a lawyer…do not hold a master’s degree in engineering or law…just an individual…WITH SOME DAMN COMMON SENSE…
Annapolis_Mike you gotta develop a mindset like some of the rest of us. The legislators hear from me several times a year. If nothing else I get a kick out of bugging them and letting them know the problems haven’t gone away. Letting them know traffic control reform is needed and can’t be sweep under the rug.
With modern word processors, once set up (I use a template) it’s just a matter of saying what you want. I generally send hard copies unless it’s urgent. It’s too easy for a email to get so-called “lost” in the shuffle. Plus a hard copy can be readily read without the need for a computer. If legislators take their work home with them on weekends, it could mean the difference between a message being read or not.
I pretty much dismiss anyone who says they don’t have time to write. It’s as important as voting.
A few lines to a congressmen might mean the difference between he/she voting for or against something. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Look at it this way, the masses won’t write so your input will be amplified by their lack of participation. This is unfortunately how some organizations such as MADD get their radical prohibitionists notions passed into law. A small vocal minority can really make a difference. Those of us who detest wrong headed enforcement should take a lesson from such groups.
I’m not sure it takes a large campaign contribution to keep a state legislators’ attention. I may throw in $50 to someones campaign. Hell a tank of gas costs more then that now-a-days. Most people can afford that.
I agree, DWB should not be allowed or any other bias. I remember seeing something on a show, I think it was on MSBC. A black off duty sheriffs’ deputy of Dade County Florida was stopped for some minuscule (probably trumped up) traffic violation by a young, cocky, white city officer. A scuffle ensured, because mistakes were made by both officers. A trial of the black deputy followed. He got off most charges. But I was struck by the very arrogant attitude of the white officer. It was revealed during the trial that this same officer had been chastised before by another judge for stopping and writing citations for this charge. He didn’t seem to give a damn even after the judge had warned him. I’m sure this cop does a whole lot more harm to law enforcement public relations, than good.
Thank you James Young, and Joe for your insightful and detailed arguments against the fascist police state that we all must navigate through. Your historical and factual arguments exposed the farce that is the “speed kills” refrain from the brainwashed LE representatives. As a black motorist I have the additional worry of DWB(Driving While Black) which in many parts of the south will get you pulled over faster than speeding. I will be writing my representative to hopefully get some light on this issue however without a $100,000 campaign contribution attached I’m sure it will get filed with many other valid complaints and proposed solutions. Please keep up the good work, and keep fighting these fascist at every turn. Maybe they will someday see the harm they are doing to this once great nation, all in the name of “safety”.
Right on James.
{More cops are killed on a traffic stop than any other situation.}
Isn’t that a little like saying more truck drivers get killed in truck crashes? If that’s your greatest activity, that’s where your greatest potential for accidents lie. You just proved what most cops are doing….and loving it. The latest accident statistics I’ve seen, law enforcement didn’t even hit the top 10.
A good Example. Kiefer police officer killed in crash.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080529_12_Avete47057
{My jurisdiction gets less than 10 dollars per citation written. Sounds like we only do it for the money to me.}
Roland, Oklahoma in the year 2002 (if my memory serves me correctly) made 1 million dollars off I-40 drivers. This is for a town of about 200 soles!! This was front page news in the Tulsa World newspaper, Sunday addition, sometime in 2003. There are a zillion examples on this web site and others contrary to your statement. Of course your statement my be true for your little tiny part of the world but it’s definitely not for the rest of us.
A couple of points:
There is no statistical correlation between speeding tickets and accidents. Increasing driver’s insurance rates for speeding tickets represents the greatest fraud ever perpetrated.
Speeding tickets issued via laser or radar are the most indiscriminate form of traffic enforcement, but also the easiest assured conviction of any offense in the penal code.
Travis writes:
{Oh yeah, I forgot…the money generated from a traffic stop goes into my pockets, lol.}
LOL all you want but there are jurisdictions where that is the case; that is, absent speeding cites, these little villages would not even be able to exist. While it is true in larger, legitimate jurisdictions that the money goes into any number of different funds, the money still comes out of the pockets of motorists and goes into the pockets of the state and/or sub-jurisdictions thereof.
{More cops are killed on a traffic stop than any other situation.}
This is true, of course, but tells us little more than they spend a disproportionate amount of their collective time doing traffic enforcement.
{My jurisdiction gets less than 10 dollars per citation written. Sounds like we only do it for the money to me.}
Somebody gets that money because it is being extracted from the motoring public at a rate of several dozen billion dollars a year. As ticket prices climb – driven by greed and the ever-expanding repertoire of special funds – even more will be extracted. One key element missing is that we, the driving public, are getting nothing out it. We don’t get better roads and we don’t get improvements in key traffic safety measures. What we do get is excuse after excuse as to why this is necessary to preserve “order” and “security” while actually gaining neither. You get paid for what you do and that puts our money in your pocket.
{…but speed doesn’t kill, I forgot.}
No, you never knew it in the first place because it isn’t true. The facts just don’t support your trite rhetoric.
Oh yeah, I forgot…the money generated from a traffic stop goes into my pockets, lol. More cops are killed on a traffic stop than any other situation. My jurisdiction gets less than 10 dollars per citation written. Sounds like we only do it for the money to me. Oh yeah, we have life flighted 3 people for speeding on their motorcycles just on one road alone…but speed doesn’t kill, I forgot.
James,
To prevent some of the people on this website from defiling (?) the name of the department that we have tried to create, I will begin communicating with you thru the email address you have listed previously for that type of information.
Thanks!
B
Crash Investigator you may not be so bad but you must keep in mind that you are one out of thousands of cops per state. Many of your brethren out there may not act or think as you do. You all wear similar uniforms. As a driver I can’t tell one from the other. And no matter what you say, driving around in a unmarked car, I can’t tell if your an impostor or the real thing until it could be too late and that’s particularly true at night!
I do however like the general tone of your post. The last serious accident study I viewed a couple years ago conducted by some university concluded that something like 70% of all accidents are from cabin distractions. Yes, throw in the inattention and we could be looking at another 20%. Then the miscellaneous stuff and I figure a liberal figure of about 5% or less for speeding as the prime cause of accidents. Around here you could get blown off the road by a tornado and the cops would still say you were speeding. Ludicrous!
One of my co-workers just told me yesterday that he noted a female driver holding a cell phone in one hand, holding a document and steering wheel with the other hand. Where do you think her mind was? Nothing against females, I see similar behavior by male drivers. Anybody who knows me knows they have about one minute to gain my attention on my trusty old bag phone before I hang up. Ya, I gotta get a new one this year. They are going to stop analog transmissions later this year. It therefore has always perplexed me that our law enforcement around here seem totally obsessed with speed enforcement. It defies any form of logic. Oh by the way…. 10 mph or less over the speed limit around here will get you busted. Where do you live….maybe I need to move.
And do you know why German cars, like BMW’s, are being driven? Because in Germany we are allowed to drive at a speed we see fit. Few people are driving while eating, smoking or talking on their Cell Phones – it’s illegal. We are fortunate to live in a truly free Country which is not subjected to a general speed limit imposed by legislators looking for an easy Buck and unaffected by slow speeds.
When in the States, I would rather see a person in the Left Lane ticketed no matter what speed he is driving – 10 over, 10 under, whatever. I have never seen such an amount of rude, uncaring drivers than on California and Nevada Interstates – where driving and passing in whatever lane they wish is thought of as normal. When in Mexico on the Autopistas, the ONLY vehicles I have encountered driving in the left lane and not passing (illegal in Mexico), have had California or Nevada plates. Too bad speeding tickets are so easy to write and so profitable. If the Slower Traffic Keep Right rule were enforced, some real money could be made and road safety would be improved as well. It would be more effort though.
I investigate serious injury/fatal crashes, in my rare down time I drive a black Impala with blacked out window to find aggressive drivers. There are those cops out there that do in fact write tickets for the revenue. I focus on those 2 percent drivers who cause 90 percent of our crashes…but…there really is a simple answer…SLOW DOWN?
We live in a time where there is a 30 second timer at McDonald’s or you get a free Big Mac. We are all in a big hurry, and when driving our attention is on anything but our driving…what should you be thinking about at 90 feet per second?
Speeding is not the problem, inattention is. Most drivers don’t realize that they are speeding..and I don’t mean 7-9, 10 MPH over the limit, usually it is at least 15-18 or more over..so when a threat presents itself not only are they behind the curve in dealing with it, but they are now to fast to do much anyway. Constantly folks blast down the turn lane at 35 MPH rather than waiting in line like everyone else. They pass people who are already speeding…Here’s the reality of it. Speeding is the bain of the average driver. We all do sometimes..some more than others…and some times we get caught..but we get caught not because we sped, but because we were not paying attention…those who know they are speeding are paying good attention, looking for the cops…it’s always the, “Where did you come from thing”
Yesterday I was behind a motorist on an I-5 over pass. He finished his cigarette then tossed it out, with no idea the cops were right behind him…and yes his lit cigarette started a small fire in the dry grass.
Bottom line folks is keep your money, but to do so you must pay attention. Speed reasonably because then us bad cops can pick on the car passing you..oddly one of the excuses I hear for people who get seat belt tickets, “Your just doing this to me because I’m poor” NOT. How much does it cost to buckle your belt? ZERO?
Seems to me if I were doing it to pick on people then if they simply buckled the belt they could beat me at my own game..then I could not pick on them…contrary to popular belief, we don’t stop every violation we see, not even close. We don’t have to stop people for chippie things either, there is sooo many seriously bad drivers it becomes a matter of picking the worst!
A final thought, do you know why German cars, like BMW’s don’t come with cup holders? Because when they are driving they are driving, not eating, text messaging, or talking to the person behind them.
Well, OK, one more pet peeve thought. I would rather the person in the left lane is going 10 over the limit than 10 under. You see these drivers, they get on the Hwy, go to the left lane, drive 10 under the limit, have the hands at 10 and 2, and never look in the rear view. They will tell you what good driver’s they are, they have never been in an accident. What they don’t know is that they have caused 17 accidents!
Rob writes:
{Listen up all you geniuses!!! If you really want to eliminate speed traps…slow down!!! Then what reason would a cop have to give you a ticket for speeding?}
Speed traps are just the tip of the iceberg. Keep in mind the true nature of the phenomenon. We have more and more jurisdictions in serious financial difficulty – often self-inflicted – who are abusing the motorist and the law itself in ways never envisioned and never intended and all just to make money without increasing taxes. I suppose that you believe that it is acceptable, perhaps even worthy, to profit from perfectly reasonable behavior. It is not the motorists who are wrong here; it is the law and its abusive authors and enforcers.
“Slowing down” carries a very heavy price tag. The NMSL (“55”) has been estimated to have cost over a trillion dollars in lost productivity, not counting the additional lives lost because drivers were forced to travel at less than the optimally safe speed.
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.” Usually attributed to Sinclair Lewis but more likely from then-governor Huey Long. Regardless of its origin, it describes much too well the behavior of too many public employees.
I read the first few posts and got tired of all the complaining.
Listen up all you geniuses!!! If you really want to eliminate speed traps…slow down!!! Then what reason would a cop have to give you a ticket for speeding?
Ok, I tried to fight it in Henderson Nevada and found out that the judge was a former cop and as a rule, sided with his cop buddies in all traffic related matters. The everyday citizen doesn’t stand a chance.
Henderson residents don’t care as long as its not them being abused. We say abused, because last month a Henderson cop Executed a mother in front of her children while she was tasered to the ground inan attempt to rescue her husband from a 600 dollar traffic citation being issued. Then they jailed the husband and took the kids to a foster care.
The Inquest justified the murder and the citizens did NOTHING. Today the cop is back on the streets as if nothing happened. No remorse. No accountability. No justice.
Speed traps are routine in Henderson and typically lead to police encounters that ends up with cops beating, tasering, abusing and killing the motorist.
Yet no one cares. The mother died for nothing. Eventually, they let the husband out claiming for the good of the children.
Henderson Nevada is a police abusive and violant city. Motorist don’t stand a chance.
The courts are corrupt and police out of control.
This information is a matter of public record should anyone want to read it. So we call it what we see it. Terrorism..
I will try to get some answers. Like you, the information I recently received was for OHP and county, which was not my intended target. Somehow my senator got off on the wrong track. A letter will be going out today asking this senator to focus on the municipalities and not the county and OHP. My representative is worthless. I can’t even get a response from him. I don’t know how he stays in office. I have a couple more traffic control subjects to which my legislators will be receiving communications. If he doesn’t reply to something by the end of the session, he’s going to get a respectful but nasty letter from me. I already had to do that last year. He’s a former municipal judge of Broken Arrow so I suspect he’s against any kind of traffic control reform that involves municipalities. For all you green horns out there, there’s a tremendous amount of politics in traffic control. It takes a while to get a feel for the system as you try to make changes. If you think that all this is about safety as your not so friendly cop will try to remind you at a traffic stop…..think again.
My next communication to them will be a anti-quota bill. Several years ago I had a bill introduced but all the good ‘ole boys in the Judiciary Committee decided against it. Maybe it’s a good thing because I’ve learned a lot since then. I noticed, according to http://www.thenewspaper.com, that a couple states this year have enacted or in the process of enacting such a law. This same site however points out some of the flaws in some of these laws. To avoid police chiefs and management from getting around such a law it will need to be carefully crafted. I may ask the NMA for help on this one.
Then we are going to see if we can get a little more transparency in traffic enforcement, specifically enforcement data such as the problem we are having now. It’s time we cut the crap and shed some light on this issue. If this data is going to be treated as a state secret by these municipalities, I want know why. OK. needs to get out of the dark ages and collect this information to publish on the Internet.
James, as you so eloquently pointed out there’s no way to know if towns such as Kiowa, Stringtown and Caney are even playing by the rules. There’s one good selling point to our local legislators for these proposals, especially for Tulsa and surrounding communities. Dallas represents a lot of traffic both personal and business travel to and from Tulsa. A co-worker of mine told me the other day that he drives over to OKC and then down I-35 to avoid these little speed trap towns. I informed him that I did the same thing. My wife is a Texan with a cousin in the Dallas area. We avoid Hwy 75 like the plague. Even with the cost of gas as high as it is, a ticket (or more) taking the short cut to Dallas my be a far greater losing proposition. It’s too bad the turnpike to nowhere had to be built down there. I just can’t understand why Okies, esp. NE Oklahomans have allowed this bull to continue.
I guess my ‘ole buddy Fred that lives just outside Stringtown has thrown in the towel. He may be in poor health. I barely hear from him anymore. He was such bulldog and good source of information about these abusers. He’s a WWII vet, a former merchant mariner and truck driver now in his ’80s. If a man with a life time of experiences can be such a avid supporter of getting rid of speed traps, then there must be something to it. I told him several years ago when we first got acquainted that this was a tough business. Nothing has changed.
I don’t know how the distribution breaks down. I tried to ascertain this information from the OHP (the office on I-44 near Mingo) and was directed to the Court Clerk to the City Clerk back to the Court Clerk who gave me a printed schedule of special funds, e.g., Victim’s Assistance, but it was impossible to tell how a $200 total “fine” was broken out. Remember, this was for OHP and Tulsa City/County so it would have been on the straight and narrow. Kiowa doesn’t play by the same set of rules.
I do know that there only two ways they can keep a citation off a driver’s record: (1) deferred adjudication and (2) not reporting it in the first place. The “courts,” meaning the mayor in many cases, are not interested in adjudication, only in cash.
Team Ramrod’s post was bizzare. I tried to respond point by point but there were too many [sic]s in there. I ran it through a grammar tester and it came out with a 6.5 on the Flesch-Kincaid scale, roughly 6th grade.
James do you happen to know how much these OK. municipalities are allowed to keep from traffic citations. I am in current contact with a OK. state senator on this very subject. Also did you site that municipalities must report their traffic data to the state. This leads to my next question as to why this data never sees the light of day. How can we judge if certain enforcement leads to certain results if this data is held as a state secret? Why do we see data of every dimension and massaged every way on accidents but we see nothing on the enforcement side. Doesn’t this sound a little strange. I will hold off on my letter until I get this straight.
I’m going to start asking some hard questions of my state elected officials. I’ve already started and it’s gonna get more intensive.
Not saying it’s not true but I’ve never heard of “the option of a deferred sentence” for traffic violations.
I guess according to “team ramrod” we can just shutdown all the NMA blogs and similar sites because we are all loony LOL. Got a newsflash for you buddy. I see your brethren out there nearly everyday as a constant reminder. When they quit reminding me, I’ll shut up. Meanwhile suck it up.