6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit
March 26th, 2008 Posted in Red-Light Cameras, Yellow Light Duration Short yellow light times at intersections have been shown to increase the number of traffic violations and accidents. Conversely, increasing the yellow light duration can dramatically reduce red-light violations at an intersection. Some local governments have ignored the safety benefit of increasing the yellow light time and decided to install red-light cameras, shorten the yellow [...]6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit
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[...] [Source: National Motorists Association] [...]
Fraud
In 1996 Costa Mesa CA (OC) this was already being done on Harbor Blvd. The yellow was as short as 2 sec.
[...] [Source: National Motorists Association] [...]
I believe that Dalton, Ga has shortened the yellow lights on the lights that are monitered by cameras.
I can emphatically confirm that a number of the streets that cross over Harbor Blvd in Costa Mesa CA are indeed 2 seconds long. I have complained to city hall a many times in the past four years, but nothing has been done about this problem.
I am often caught facing a red just after entering the intersection on a green. A few times I narrowly escaped accident or injury from fast moving vehicles exiting off the freeway.
There are many such traps set up in the city, including pedestrian lights that do not function along Adams.
[...] way to church or the adult video store? Looks like some U.S. cities have been gaming the system by shortening the yellow lights at signals with cameras — thereby endangering the citizenry in pursuit of a buck. You stay [...]
[...] or maybe I’m not just imagining things, and the yellows really are shorter. It seems that several cities across the U.S. have been caught for cutting the length of the yellow lights at traffic [...]
It sounds like the red light laws vary from state to state. Here in California, you cannot be ticketed for running a red light if your car has entered the intersection when the light is still yellow.
In Cupertino and several nearby cities, red light cameras have been disabled. See:
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamscameras.htm#Your_Town
Perhaps it was experiences similar to Cupertino’s that moved RLC vendors to the 75%/25% split revenue model, with the vendor paying for installation and maintenance, so that cities would be more likely to buy their products.
I am flabbergasted that city government officials would expose their cities to the huge potential liability that arises from too-short yellow signal timing.
I am also slightly surprised that insurance companies are not working aggressively to ensure that every red light has an adequate yellow precursor. They’re the obvious “market force” to push this issue because, it’s their costs that rise from accidents caused by too-short yellow lights.
But, if the yellow time is adequate, I say throw the book at red-light runners. Their behavior is a menace to public safety. If only they could be forced to live with the chronic pain and the loss of use of an arm that my ex-girlfriend suffered from a red light runner who entered the intersection more than three seconds after the light turned. (The driver had is infant daughter in the back seat. What was the *!&% thinking?)
Thanks for the chance to vent.
I find it hard to believe that Chicago is not guilty of shorting their yellow lights. My daily commute takes me out of the city and into the suburbs and I can tell you that the yellow lights in the city are significantly shorter than in the suburbs. With actually timing lights I can’t guarantee they are actually shorter than the minimum required, but they sure appear to be.
[...] or maybe I’m not just imagining things, and the yellows really are shorter. It seems that several cities across the U.S. have been caught for cutting the length of the yellow lights at traffic [...]
Springfield, Ohio is another city that has shortened the yellow light length.
[...] or maybe I’m not just imagining things, and the yellows really are shorter. It seems that several cities across the U.S. have been caught for cutting the length of the yellow lights at traffic [...]
The insurance companies are the ones pushing these red-light cameras in many cases. In most of the country, these count as moving offenses which allows the insurance companies to raise your rates. The added revenue far outweighs what they pay out in increased rear-end accidents.
There is a short yellow light on Dyer Road in Santa Ana, CA. Red light camera snaps pics all day long. Tickets are $350.00 for that intersection.
Thanks for this info.,I live just south of Nashville, i have not got a ticket but a few of my friends have and i will pass this on to them to check out . you wouldnt know what areas these were found at in Nashville do you?
Someone posted that St. Louis (MO), and surrounding areas have put up the cameras and are using short yellows. I’m not aware of the city of St. Louis putting up the cameras yet but a number of the municipalities in St. Louis County have put them up as well as some of the outlying cities outside of St. Louis County. So far none of them have been reported to have shortened their yellow lights. There are any number of people watching this very closely and have been since the first camera went up! And, reports are that the yellows are at least as long and some are saying there are a few slightly longer (up to a second or more) than before the cameras went up. Also, people in this area can be notorious for running red lights at dangerous intersections, which is where many of the cameras have been going up.
COSTA MESA, CA.
Harbor Blvd & MacArthur Blvd
Very busy major intersection. However, signal for MacArthur is GREEN for 5 seconds and YELLOW for 2.5 seconds. 8 seconds does not allow enough time for pedestrians, bicycles, buses, semitrailer transports to cross Harbor safely.
COSTA MESA, CA.
Harbor Blvd & Gisler Av
Eastbound Gisler Av traffic light is GREEN only for 5 seconds and YELLOW for 2.5 seconds. There is not enough time to clear the intersection safely. Dangerous for bicycles, school buses, and gasoline tanker trucks as freeway off ramp funnels traffic onto Harbor just before Gisler. Two schools within two blocks on either side of Harbor. Bicycle signal does not extend crossing light time when activated. Very bad traffic engineering.
COSTA MESA, CA.
Eastbound from El Camino Dr across Fairview Rd to Adams Av.
Traffic light is GREEN only for 5 seconds and YELLOW for 2.5 seconds. Very dangerous for slow moving vehicles, bicycles, etc.
Have there been any citations at these intersections? YES.
Have there been any accidents at these intersections? YES. And I rather the suspect the short traffic lights play a major role.
FYI, COSTA MESA, CA.
Placentia Av & Adams Av
Pedestrian traffic lights have been malfunctioning for four years. As a matter of fact, all the pedestrian traffic lights along Adams from Placentia to Harbor have operational issues which are especially evident in the evenings and on weekends. Many of the pedestrian lights along Harbor have the same problems.
Another example of City Hall’s apathy:
Last year they repaved Presidio Dr, but they failed to install handicap access at all intersections. Now they are repaving Coronado Dr. Same scenario.
Costa Mesa City Hall does not care about the personal safety of people traveling within its city limits. They have been told many times about these problems for the past four years, but have done nothing to solve them.
how about Fredrick MD I got a ticket for running a red and the light was green when I went under.
[...] bad driving. For the next few months at least, I would advise everybody to play within the rules. Towns shortening yellow lights to increase revenues. __________________ You know that life really takes its toll And a poet’s gut reaction is to [...]
Gainsville FL, 4 lane left turn, just another crazed example …. unless we take time to video and go to court , after the cop warns “you’d better not have any previous violations, because then you’ll likely pay more than the ticket ! In Alachua county, judges will fine you the maximum!”
He commented he’d handed out atleast 42 tickets that day at that spot, in 4 hours. The few minutes I spent at the intersection , I noticed other cops also, and they were pulling over people in non stop momentum.
Seems we’re SOL. Plus The additional costs to spend time and money on courses , to reduce the impact on insurance .
What are the odds of having such an experience corrected ?!
Solana Beach Hwy 101 in Del Mar at the Camino Del Mar & Via de la Valle intersection.
I got caught on camera 6 weeks ago and just got the initial notice in the mail. At the time I thought that was a very quick amber. I contacted CALTRAN and got a copy of the Californian MUTCD, which states minimum recomended time of 4.3 sec.
The violation gives a website for you to view your ‘offence’ which clearly shows the time of the amber light, 3.3 seconds.
Obviously I will fight this, but does anyone know how the Californian law works, i.e. if the amber is below the Highways Department recommendation is the ticket dismissable or does the DOT have no power to enforce the recommendations? Also has anyone taken the avenue of complaining to the State of California, Department of Consumer Affairs (DCA)? I would be very interested to here of anyone who has gone to court with below MUTCD times for amber in the state of CA.
In 1999 I was at fault for a T-Bone accident in Santa Barbara, CA at Milpas and Canon Perdido Intersection. When I reached the intersection I was stopped at the red light, it turned green, the car in front of me went and I followed but by the time I was in the intersection it was already red. I totalled out my car, had increased insurance rates, injured the other person, lost work and school time, plus still have permanent lower back damage. The green light and yellow light are both short-timed there, but not consistently, only locals that travel it daily may notice it early in the morning. I told the police officer and had a someone who worked in the area who testifed to the frequent morning occurance since she was a pedestrian who has almost gotten run over many times. But the police man didn’t care. My ticket cost over $300 plus I had to do traffic school and my $3000 car was totalled. I told all this to my insurance company but they didn’t care, they didn’t cover any medical or car damage and cancelled my policy.
Just in case you did not notice, law enforcement has been reduced to two things today: 1 – Fee for Service (listen to any Head Sheriff or PD Chief say that without the 1/2 cent sales tax increase he can’t prevent crime in your area, or without more revenue he can’t protect you . . .) and 2 – Low Fruit/ Easy Pickins. It is all about the money, god forbid they actually go do something that is important like make arrests in home invasions, or actually break-up a gang, or do adequate police work that some cheap attorney can’t get thrown out on a technicality.
The LA DA is busy getting headlines with the big bad health insurance company, but he won’t fight crime in the streets. The LA Mayor is in front of the camera at every opportunity but won’t support the Gang Task Force.
It is all about easy pickins. Legal racketeering with guns. Very scary. Next time I get stopped . . . ” . . . yes sir, thank you sir, anything else sir. ” you bet. The light scam is just one more racket.
i have talked to officers & city mgr fore years to try &get a white line across the lane before the light that would allow anyone crossing before light turns yellow to safely clear intersection
TO PETER CARNIGLIA:
I COULDN’T AGREE MORE. IT HAS BECOME “LEGAL RACKETEERING WITH GUNS” WITH TOTALLY INADEQUATE FOCUS ON REAL CRIME.
YOU HIT A DISGUSTING NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD.
THIS IS NO LONGER THE LAND OF THE FREE.
RICK GOLD
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[...] [Source: National Motorists Association] [...]
[...] a profit, even if at a cost to the rights, safety and happiness of citizens (as has been proven in Chattanooga’s case, among others). With the “Request for Proposals”, the enforcement of a traffic signal is no longer [...]
I agree with the person from Ann Arbor Mi.
that they have shortened the time of some yellow lights. I have known this for a long time and watch the police stop and ticket cars at the same intersection day in and day out. This is a money racket for the city and the city has a shit fit, when the county and state police run a seat belt ticket program in there area, because the ticket money goes to the county or State and not to the City of Ann Arbor, Mich
I work in the area and see this daily. and have almost run a yellow light that went from green to yellow and instantly to red, and 3 police cars setting on three corners of the intersection. And was almost rearended stopping.
I feel that the Federal Hiway dept. should set the light standards for the entire country and should be able to fine the City, or state for violating the timing standards.
I forgot to mention the intersection is South State Street and Eisenhower Blvd.
[...] [Source: National Motorists Association] [...]
Pittsburgh is known for very short amber signals at intersections. I was trapped not long ago at a 2.9 second amber signal that required to be 4.5 seconds as per AASHTO. As a registered engineer, I put together all the evidence necessary to prove that the amber was inadequate. Neither the local magistrate nor Allegh Co appeals judge gave a damn. The pgh cop who couldnt spell my name correctly on the citation didnt have the brain power to understand the circumstances. This was not long after pgh fired the only traffic engineer it had! Beware of this cash strapped city!
[...] It’s amazing how the assholes in this country seem drawn towards positions of authority. And the way they act like a bunch of latent homosexual, drunken Frat Rats playing Truth or Dare while passing legislation makes me fucking sick. I don’t have a problem with authority, just the small people who wield it. Try this batch of bullshit on for size. [...]
I am shocked so many of you are surprised. Heck, I called this before there were red light cameras. It’s not about safety its about cold hard cash. If it wasn’t they would donate the money to charity.
[...] shut down for losing money. Also, they usually hurt safety, since municipalities can’t resist shortening yellow lights to generate more [...]
The problem is that there is no marking to indicate to the driver where he/she can stop from. The driver is forced to make an estimate of the distance remaining, the time to stop, etc. If a line was placed on the road, I call it the “Pink Line”, at a scientificly calculated distance from the light and stop bar, all drivers would instantely know when the light turned yellow if they could stop. To be fair, all human factor data and vehicle data would be within the 3 sigma variation.
Tom
Can anyone tell me the law # or the full text for yellow light’s min second in California state?
Thank you.
[...] people doing? They’re getting into accidents. According to a recent article published by the National Motorists Association, Short yellow light times at intersections have been shown to increase the number of traffic [...]
[...] than safety, as reducing the amber period increases ticket generation by also increases crashes. 6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit Keep in mind that the article only lists cities which reduced the amber period below the legal [...]
[...] an amusing story about six cities that were “caught” shortening their yellow lights so they could [...]
I see the posts are a bit old, but an answer for June Smith.
See: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21455_7.htm
then see pg. 4D-50, Table 4D-102 at:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/signtech/mutcdsupp/pdf/camutcd/CAMUTCD-Part4.pdf
I just had my picture taken by a camera in my city. Problem is that the approach speed is 50 mph and the day after the photo op I video recorded the amber light interval at 3 seconds. Called the traffic department and gave them the Union City article. I don’t think I’ll be seeing a ticket show up in my mailbox…
I wrote about my situation on Apr 15 for Solana Beach, CA. After a thorough research including items mentioned in that comment plus stopping distances with reaction times from the Oregon Highway Patrol I contacted the Sherrifs department that handled the offences and asked them to hold the video for evidence.
The person asked if there was a problem as they would be the one meeting me in court. I went through the DOT regulations and CALTRAN laws regarding lights and timing. Their argument was that I was turning LEFT and therefore NOT doing the assigned speed but in fact slower as I ‘would not be able to take the corner’.
My reply was that ‘My Lamborghini can easily take the turn at 45 mph! Joking aside, but using that car as a reference my approach was from a posted 45 mph speed limit, there were no other posted speed signs and not even an advisory speed for the left lane, turn, so although I was indeed going slower than the limit, that cannot be ASSUMED. With no advisory stopping line, having to brake at that speed with reaction time would have caused the car to skid and still go over the line…in dry conditions [Ref Oregon Highway Patrol figures].’
The Sherrif stated I argued my point with educated facts and was very articulate about presenting my situation and would drop the case. The point is, as annoying and ‘dangerous’ as this practice is, get all your facts thoroughly researched and as much documented evidence as possible, especially from other law enforcement agencies. Then present your case in a calm logical manor. Do not get argumentative or abussive, if the case is not dropped save all those facts for the court. My guess is the case will be dropped as they do not want the word to get out that this practice actually increases accidents and is anything but preventative which is what all law enforcement agencies preach.
Steve
[...] the number of traffic violations and accidents. Can read which cities and more information at: 6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit __________________ Valentine One Radar Laser Pro Park LPP Dual Head Bel 980 HELP SUPPORT US – [...]
I got ticketed at one of these red light cameras for going through a yellow light here in NYC. The next time I passed the camera array, the light turned yellow. What do you think I did? I hit the brakes. An uninsured driver rear-ended me, totaled both our cars and put me in the hospital. These cameras are not there for “public safety”. The politicians would rather dance in your blood while you get injured. What’s wrong with just increasing the yellow light signal and the time both lights are red? Simple – there’s no money in that.
[...] is no standardization of yellow light duration and several cities have been caught shortening them around a red light camera to increase [...]
I live in Spokane Washington. the cops (pigs) here make up their own laws.
I get a ticket every 2 weeks or so because I wrote a complaint against a cop and he got in trouble. I must be red flagged or something.
They write me false tickets and when I go to court the judge wont even listen to me. I loose every case. I got a ticket the other day for going 50 in a 35. Their were 2 cars infront of me and a car behind me and behind that car was a cop.
We sat through 3 red lights and then when I swiched lanes the cop got behind me and pulled me over and wrote the ticket for 50 in a 35.
I hate Spokane because it is so corrupt. It is way over policed. I wasnt speeding at all! If you want to live a happy life don’t come to Spokane!
Chicago is bragging about their 104 intersections with red light cameras. A friend was caught on one with a yellow light of less than 3 seconds….$100 goes to the city from a hard working citizen who tries very hard NOT to break the law. They hope to make $50 Million this year with this scam!! We are living in a very difficult city!!
Betty,
If indeed the amber light was below 3 seconds [Do they have video evidence showing actual time of alleged offence?], then they need to go public and seek an attorney to correct the false violation and sue for endangerment.
The DOT from Washington DC has laid down the absolute minimum time as 3 seconds for any amber light with guidance for times at different speeds thereafter. The States Transport department then issuses the regulatory minimum times for different posted speeds in that State [But never below 3 seconds].
Your friend needs to get hold of IL States Transport manual for regulations pertaining to street signs and traffic signals [it should be available to the public]. In there it will say what the minimum time is for each speed limit. For instance in my case, DOT minimum I think was 5.0 sec for 45 mph, CALTRANS minmum [The law in California] was 4.5 sec and the actual time was 3.3 seconds. Thus they had broken the State law, but not the DOT law of an absolute minimum 3.0 seconds.
I was lucky, they sent me a link to view the video so I had not only proof of the timing infraction, but proof of the infraction at the time the aleged offence took place. Incidentally when timed to 4.5 sec I was well over 3/4 of the way through the junction and thus would not have triggered the camera.
Hope this helps.
Steve